Todd's Indy Jacket

[Deleted]

indianatone said:

G-Mann, if you were stuck out hiking, camping, or somewhere adventurous and had only a US Wings to wear at the time, would you still feel it could hold up in the spirit of Indy? Or would you feel like it just wasn't the 'right' jacket?

Tone,

Yes, it would hold up to the spirit of Indy.

It is a good jacket for the people that do not mind close enough gear. However it is a crap shoot as to what you will end up with from US Wings. Mine were different in WAY too many ways. Even the liner and label were different from Jacket to jacket.

For the Screen Accurate Fanatic it would be wasted money and perhaps a nightmare.

Cheers,
G-MANN

[pitfallharry]

G-Mann, maybe I missed this but what type of leather is the US Wings jacket you own? In the one shot it looks like it might make a passable LC jacket if it was distressed a little further.

[Deleted]

Harry,

It is Lambskin and even though it looks distressed it is practically brand new and VERY stiff. The darker one was Very soft and looked like the leather on Todd's prototype. Capt_Zak now owns it.

By the way the US Wings weighs about 2 or 3 times what a Wested or G&B does.

Cheers,
G-MANN

[indianatone]

It is a good jacket for the people that do not mind close enough gear. However it is a crap shoot as to what you will end up with from US Wings.

Thank you, G-Mann.
I think that is where Todd is filling the void in throwing his version of the jacket into the mix in this price range.

[Deleted]

Tone,

I agree. I think he can make a VERY stiff competitor for US Wings. I am really looking forward to getting Todd's Version once everything is GO on them.

Cheers,
G-MANN

[pitfallharry]

gmann said:

Harry,

It is Lambskin and even though it looks distressed it is practically brand new and VERY stiff. The darker one was Very soft and looked like the leather on Todd's prototype. Capt_Zak now owns it.

By the way the US Wings weighs about 2 or 3 times what a Wested or G&B does.

Cheers,
G-MANN

Eh, that's not good. Considering I think the Wested is very light I was still sweating my butt off while wearing it for my pics. I can't imagine what the US Wings must feel like.

Once you get the one from Todd you'll have to let us know how the weight on it is. From the pics of the prototype it looks very light and easy to move in.

[Kt. Templar]

gmann said:

KT,

Here are a few old pics from last winter. The US Wings are VERY Inconsistant. In both color and leather texture. Both were ordered within a month and they could not are almost nothing alike one another They claimed it was just a different batch of leather but GEEZ

US Wings left, Wested middle, Expedition right.



US Wings



US Wings



Cheers,
G-MANN

Not bad at all, I think they would make a good "distressing" project, the positioning of the pockets is weird tho isn't it?

[Deleted]

Here are 2 more pics of the US Wings outside. It will help you see the screen inacurracies a little better.





Cheers,
G-MANN

[Kt. Templar]

That extra seam at the elbow! That's just penny pinching, it would bug me a lot!

[IndyBlues]

Yeah, those extra seams drive me nuts as well. I wouldn't care if it were on a regular everyday beater, but not on an Indy jacket.
Nice jacket collection, G-Mann. I've had so many Indy jackets pass thru my door, and I've narrowed it down to me favorite 3(so far). All 3 Wested,...a TOD authentic lamb(like new), a dark brown Raiders goat, nicely worn in, and a totally distressed Raiders authentic lamb.
I love these things!!
'Blues

[Deleted]

Indyblues,

After I receive the one from Todd, I plan on thinning down the herd to 3 also. I may put a couple up for sale here.

Cheers,
G-MANN

[indianadirk]

hey , if you want to sell a jacket and its in an XL size , ill gladly take it off your hands:)

[Stefana Jones]

hey , if you want to sell a jacket and its in an XL size , ill gladly take it off your hands:)

That goes for me too, are you size 42-44 ?
You can do an Auction if more people are interested.

[Tycoonman]

The extra seams didn't come on my Wings jacket, nor is the leather from different batches. US Wings is starting to get back in the game, or I just lucked out with a nice jacket!

Tycoonman

[Deleted]

Does anybody here know if Peter makes copies of Jackets from movies that he did not design himself?

Cheers,
G-MANN

[indianadirk]

uhm I know he's making that rocketeer jacket? but i dont know if he made the original

[IndyBlues]

He makes a War of the Worlds jacket, a Lethal Weapon 4 jacket, and an X-Men3 jacket, all copies of other makers jackets. They look great, too.
'Blues

[Deleted]

Well as far as I am concerned, Peter gave up the right to complain about people copying his jacket the moment he copied someone elses designs.

I don't beleive in double standards.

Cheers,
G-MANN

[pitfallharry]

Well, I was just over at Todd's site and I didn't see anything new on the jacket. Didn't he say he was supposed to get the final "design model" here shortly?

I understand people sticking up for Peter and Wested out of loyalty and that's great. I love my Wested also and I'm sure Peter is a terrific guy even though I've never had the chance to meet him.

I don't however believe Todd is doing anything wrong. He's simply offering us another option as far as the jackets go.

I've seen plenty of "gear heads" with more than one Indy jacket and all from different sources. Peter has survived the other competitors and I'm sure he and Wested will be around long after Todd's jacket hits the market.

[Ragingblues]

Peter may indeed be a nice fella, but he's not handling this recent situation with Todd very nicely. He took the schoolboy, name calling approach in Todd' jacket thread over at COW.

The sad thing is, he knows better than anyone that there are around 10 other manufacturers of the jacket out there. For him to act like Todd is the only one making an Indy jacket besides him is simply ridiculous.

The total stupidity of people never fails. There are people over there, assailing Todd for this new jacket, with a host of others making jackets, Magnoli replicating everything that wasn't human in the movies, and Peter himself making Indy shirts, pants, and jackets from other movies he had nothing to do with.

Total double standard if I have ever seen it.

Ken

[pitfallharry]

Yes, I did see that reply over at Indy Gear and I was never aware of any bad blood between him and Todd prior to this.

I think once things settle down a bit people will realize that this isn't any different that any other jacket vendor coming out prior to this one with their own version.

Peter's jackets are still number one. They are the original. They have stood the test of time as far as quality and service.

Todd is the one that's going to end up having to prove himself to everyone and if the jacket sinks or swims totally depends on the quality and how the owners review it.

I really don't see why this jacket has stirred up such a big fuss.

Like I said before the majority of the fans own more than one brand of jacket and most if not all own a Wested and love it.

I personally don't want to get caught in the middle of anything again but I do hope cooler heads prevail and people give Todd a chance too.

[Kt. Templar]

I am a Wested fan that is obvious.

But some of the misconceptions need to be addressed. Peter started making Indy shirts and trousers after Noel left the martket and with his permission.

Yes, Wested makes replicas of other movie jackets, they never say they are the best and they never charge over the odds. They always say like the one in so and so film. Rarely are they in the same market as the "offical" makers and always at a significantly reduced price.

What is also important to understand they are often asked to make the replica jackets. The Wolverine Jacket was worked on with them by the RPF, the Doctor Who was very similar to a Das Boat and I gave them the reference to complete it. I also helped them with reference to the War of the Worlds (I believe they got some assistance from the eve of the war forums).

I have talked with Peter a little on Todds jacket. The main reason Todd is making his jacket in India is it is cheap. The best price Peter could give him with a Wested made in the UK was too high to make it profitable enough for Todd. The possibility that he can make it "accurate" is by the by and not yet proven. What he sees as a sample is not necessarily what he get as a production run, as WPG's bags are a testiment to. They are made in Pakistan and the cloth is a long way from the cloth on an original MKVii.

Maybe Todd can overcome the distance problems he will have in controlling his production and he may be able to produce a good product. Good luck to him. I'm sure he has an uphill struggle to contend with.

Magnoli also get's dragged into these arguements, I've never bought anything from him either. His clothiers line looks very nice but personally I believe his prices are quite high too (with, perhaps, the exception of his made to measure shirt and trousers... they seem quite reasonable). I am lead to believe that day to day prices in New Zealand are approx only 2/3rds of that in the UK by a couple of friend who have lived over there.

I have seen and held a Magnoli Gas bag and it looks like a replica, the material is much too soft, more like cotton than canvas, it pills and the bag folds in half under it's own weight, it's a little like the stonewashed denim of the "singapore" bag. The strap is sort of thin and ragged on the edges. The buckle is nice though. The drain hole hardware is good but the side disk looks fake.

[Ragingblues]

I'm not sure how any of this changes Peter's double standard? He does what he accuses others of doing... making clothes he didn't make originally.

Plus, since the Wested was never a Lucasfilm licensed jacket in the first place, there is no such thing a copyrighting a clothing pattern (especially internationally), and there have been many Indy jacket makers in place for years, there is no claim to the design at stake here.

In many, many people's minds, the Flightsuits / Gibson & Barnes jacket is far more screen accurate than a Wested. The issue of his putting down Todd's jacket because of an assumed level of quality is not only far out of bounds, since the G & B jacket has been reported by just as many to be a better made garment, it's also a slap in the face to people from India. The Old Navy shirts (for example) were made in India, as are giant amounts of high quality clothing, so that's an ignorant comment for him to make.

I just see this whole issue of people giving Todd a hard time, especially Peter, as the redressing of issues that have long, long since been dealt with. People are very obviously ignoring the facts here, in an attempt to win favor with a man they have never met before. Peter makes jackets for money, plain and simple. That is what his company does and it's a fine way to make a living. For him to claim he doesn't do it "also" for the money is crazy. If he isn't making any profit on these jackets now, he should raise his prices. But first, he needs to addres his company's quality control issues. Almost everyone who has bought a Wested has a story about that. I have a couple myself.

Ken

[Kt. Templar]

Ok, the arguements have been discussed to death here and elsewhere, no one seems swayed either way. If people have issues with either vendor they should vote with their wallets.

One question out of curiosity RB, what are your QC issues with your Westeds?

[Ragingblues]

Don't get me wrong, I am no Wested hater... as I bought a goatskin directly from Wested and a lambskin one from G-Mann. I like them, but my custom ordered one has some drama attached.

So far, only G-Mann knows this story. Here's what happened to me....

I ordered a dark brown Raider's goatskin Wested with sliders, x-box stitching, and of course my measurements. It came in and was a beauty, except for one thing. The back panel was a different color than the rest of the jacket, and had a very different feel to it as well (much softer). After trying not to see it for a while (true denial), I finally had to agree that is was too different to keep. So, I took photos and sent them with the explanation of the problem to Wested.

They said for me to send it back, at my expense, and they would check it out. If it was indeed different (my pictures proved that beyond the shadow of a doubt), they would replace the back panel at their expense. After a couple of weeks of waiting, I finally got word from them that yes, it was a different color on the back panel. So, they would replace it and return it. Weeks go by, no word. Then I hear that they are out of dark brown goatskin, and are waiting for more to arrive. Weeks later, I ask again, and am told that more had just arrived and they were repairing the jacket. No more word from them, then the jacket arrives.

It's not the same jacket. I has not been repaired, it's been replaced. I am bummed since I had already been wearing the other one and had begun feeling that it was a part of me. Luckily, I measured my first one before sending it back, and had secretly marked it as well. Thankfully, the new one fit even better, and I liked the sleeve opening better as well. Two more issues, this one has no x-box stitching, and d-rings instead of sliders.

I write to Gemma to ask why she told me that my jacket was being repaired instead of replaced, and about the differences between them. She says that replacement was the only way to assure the panel matched the jacket, since the dyelots would be different.... that I can understand. However, she also says they don't have anymore sliders, only d-rings. No mention about the stitching at all, BTW. I said... well you have the sliders that came off my first jacket? No response to that one either. Finally, I got them to find some sliders, and she sent 2 of them to me. I had to email again, and say that the jacket's take 4 sliders not 2. So, later on.... another 2 were sent to me.

So, I address the shipping expenses back to Wested, which ran me almost $50 with insurance. She said to send her the amount, and she would refund it to my credit card. I did, and later got a refund for $30 only.

After all this, I got a jacket where the color matches and fits well, but, it still doesn't have x-box stitching and it cost me an extra $20 out of my pocket to go through this drama. I'm sure I could send it back again, at my own expense... have them add the stitching, then return it again... and spend another $20 of my own money for the shipping difference, not have the jacket for several more weeks meanwhile, and.... risk not even getting the same jacket back at all. But, it's just not worth it at this point.

So, I have had my reasons to bad mouth Wested, but I never did. I am happy they stood behind their work, but I do wish I hadn't had to go through all that to wind up with less than what I originally paid for. I am only sharing this now, because KT asked.... and am not doing so to sling mud at Peter. I think Wested makes great jackets, but their attention to details on orders, and communicaton leaves alot to be desired.

If I had to order again for the first time, knowing what I know now... and hearing Peter's childish remarks toward Todd.... I would buy a G & B or instead. Pending how Todd's new one looks in person, I would have to consider it as well.

Ken