I just had a weird thought!

[Kt. Templar]

Now some of you over on the other site will have seen much of the posturing a certain admin is doing other there and it made me wonder... does he know something we don't.

I've just put 2+2 together and made 15 but please bear with me. Now one nugget I do know is that Lucasfilm has licenced apparel this time round bigtime.

That must include jackets?

And what if US WINGS has aquired the license?

It can make them much more forthright on the Indy front hence the current, ie. "the Cooper Jacket was the TOD hero jacket."

They have been in upheaval lately and are cutting their lines of existing Indy jackets, big clearance sale.

Is that to make room for the Indy 4 jacket?

Do I need to take a X-Files pill?

[Prof.Wex]

Well KT,

It does seem that licensing is a big deal to Lucas and Spielberg..A good example would have to be the recent lightsaber issue, I cant remember the the company they went after but, they did make a point that they will sue if someone holds a license like Master Replicas. So who really knows, I still think that Peter at Wested should get the license for the new jackets, At least that way it will stay true to being correct. The Wings jackets have to many inconsistencies for my taste.
I dont like the 3 piece sleeves they often come with, and the back of the wings jacket is off on a few levels. Dont get me wrong wings makes a good jacket, but I prefer Wested. So my vote goes to Wested, I hope they get the contract to make the new jackets.

Sincerely, Prof.Wex , now where are those pills ;D

[Jorenz]

Hey KT...Not too loud...uh oh.

Now you guys need to be eliminated

[indianatone]

I don't think it matters, does it? Licensed and screen-used rarely see the same product. If US Wings is picking up the licensing for IndyIV it just means that many more people will have an inaccurate jacket with an "Indiana Jones" label inside. It's doubtful they'll be the ones to supply the film jacket. Same as Dorfman Pacific makes the licensed hats but none were the actual Indy hats for the films. If anything it's a big operation for mass produced stuff versus accurate replicas.

[Kt. Templar]

Yeah, maybe I'm just being paranoid.

If recent history is to be taken as a pointer the jacket will be made of pleather with leather "official" jackets by Belkin costing over $1000. Playtime may be over.

[Ragingblues]

KT... I think you may very well be on to something, so no weird thoughts from me. I view much of what is said about jackets by certain people as posturing and aiming to secure their place in the hobby's history. So, your assumption seems dead on to me.

Ken

[pitfallharry]

So is this somehow going to lead to them trying to stop other vendors around these parts from supplying gear?

[winstonwolf359]

If LFL awards a license to someone to produce Indy items, they certainly might go after anyone else that produces competing items.

I've seen it over and over again in the Star Wars world. Indy items seem to have been largely spared, but the threat is always there, and now with a new movie (and new licensing deals to protect) you can bet LFL will be proactive in guarding their rights.

[Kt. Templar]

There's a bunch of naysayers piling onto Peter on the other site, as you know I am a great fan of his. This is my response to them just thought I'd let you know just incase I get hounded off there by "you know who."

I'm one of those being portrayed as an overzealous nut job and this is far from the truth, I am as cynical and jaded as the next man! Probably more so, I work in licensing. I know what sort of deals are done by official licensees.

I don't put the guy on a pedestal, I like him a lot, he works hard to try and please the fans here and at other sites and has also been very generous in the past, giving a free jacket at one summit that I know of.

A couple of years ago I found out about "Indygear", there was a place on the net where a bunch of fans have found out who made the original stuff from a great movie and can put you in contact with them and you can even buy the stuff. AMAZING.

So after reading all the information on the main site and also some of the forum and finding, to my astonishment, that one of the producers was only about half an hour away from me. I went to see Peter. You can read my account from my first post a couple of years ago. There is a tone of awe in my account, slightly tongue in cheek, if you hadn't gathered that. But something you should know about meeting him. He is very down to earth, likes to tell a joke. A throughly nice guy and a good salesman.

Anything that's an embellishment is told with a wink and a smile so you know to take it with a pinch of salt. Something some folk here should learn how to do.

I've had a few jackets from him and have helped a little providing photos for a couple of his more recent non Indy projects.

The crazy thing is, I've never had a made to measure, his ones always fit me good enough there and then so I haven't had to. It is very difficult to get clothes to fit me in a normal retail store. I am very short but sort of broad. But he does sizes outside those that normal retail would do, this more than anything makes me appreciate him. It's a relief to actually find something that fits!

My information about gear history comes only from this site I have no inside information about the 80's films and contrary to any assumptions I've never actually talked with Peter about the ins and outs of how he came to make the Raiders jacket in the first place. We've chatted about films he's worked on and he's shown me various samples of old jackets he has in the shop. I have a Bond style jacket from the Roger Moore days that he sold me for a song, it even has a Leather Concessionaires label in it. He has told me he has measured Ford on 2 occasions, for Indy and for Hannover Street. I believe him.

I've never taken the COA as anything other than a bit of fun.

I've seen the way he works. I brought photos of a jacket I wanted him to make from another franchise. He started to think about it, "It's an X body with a Y collar and a Z belt, Yes I can put that together from the patterns I have here". (Note: The X, Y, and Z are my shorthand I didn't catch the refererences he noted to himself).

That's possibly how he went about putting his Indy jacket together for Raiders, perhaps after that the bits went back into their slots in the pattern alphabet and were lost to the mists of time.

25 years ago he and his workers made a bunch of jackets, he'll now make you a similar one.

He produces a decent product that he could have sold for far far more but chose to sell at below retail price.

Anyway please don't demonise the man, he's 63 now will be retired and out of your hair before too long.

Thank YOU Peter.

Illegitimi non carborundum est

Jason.

[agent5]

It's so very clear that some still have a bad taste in their mouth about Peter after the jacket wars, some 8 years ago. I say...let it go.
Of course, as I've been told, it was both sides who let the debate get to where it got. Still, I say...let it go.

[Deleted]

They certainly seem to be trying to tear Peter a new one over there. Truely a shame. I am surprised nobody has cleaned up some of those threads.

It is starting to seem like the reason they are Redoing the gear site is to REMIND people how hard they all worked a decade ago.

Bravo.

Cheers,
G-MANN

[GCR]

As it came up here, I'll repeat what I had to add to that little joy of a thread over at the OGF, just in case it disappears.

This again...what the **** is up with the jacket?

I've been avoiding sticking my nose in this thread, mainly because threads like these tick me off. I've been around this hobby for a long time. Not always posting and contributing, mind you...but always out there somewhere, on the fringe. I was around in the Indyfan days, I saw the rise of the "jacket wars", back when all of this first got stirred up. I thought it was BS then, and I think it's BS now.

What is BS, you might ask? That's the thing...that's the very nature of BS, you can't be sure what is BS and what isn't. I don't care how good you are at sniffing these things out, unless you've got proof, you've got nothing. In essence, this whole dang thing might be BS from top to bottom. Wested's story might be BS, Patterson's story might be BS, they might both have elements of BS in them, but one thing is sure, they can't both be true.

So who do you believe? Both sides might have things to be gained or lost from people buying into their version of the truth. Perhaps one more than the other, depending on your perspective. But which one is it? That's the real question here, and that's when the lines get drawn in the sand and people are forced to choose sides, all over a dang jacket.

As for me, I'm perfectly willing to accept the fact that we may NEVER know the true jacket story. We have two versions right now, and I honestly think the "truth" lies somewhere in between them. And I'm okay with that, I'm able to accept the unknown instead of choosing one side or the other. Choosing "sides" isn't what this hobby is about for me. And it never has been...

And to be clear, I don't know Peter or Patterson personally. I've never met either of them, or talked with them face to face, on the phone or through some other form of communication outside of these forums. My sole source as a judge of character is this very board (and Indyfan, though I admit, my memory of those days isn't great). I'm sure both of them are great guys, and I do not question that. Nor is it my goal to question that with this post. I merely wish to show that there is no one "true" jacket story, despite what people claim. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence, heresay and conjecture, but there is nothing solid enough, concrete enough to positively declare any one jacket story as "the truth", in my opinion. Perhaps someday there will be, but until then... (smiley rolling eyes)

-GCR

That's how I feel about the entire situation. Stirring up this old hornet's nest won't do anyone any good. Choosing sides, and what's the point? What is there to gain? Who does it help???

The entire situation is ridiculous in so many ways...bashing Wested again for all of the same old reasons. "Peter lied!" "His COA's are bogus!" "The LC jacket was a copy of Keppler's!"

So what if it's all true? Why bring it up all over again. Peter still made the jacket that ended up being worn in Raiders, didn't he? He was the legitimate source for the original Raiders jacket, that still means something to some people, right? If you wanna get on the man's case, get on him about his Customer Service, or his Quality Control...something relevant that might actually HELP people, that might actually help other fans...

But this? Yet again?

-GCR

[Deleted]

Well stated GCR.

This may be blasphemous however, I really do not care one bit about the history behind the jacket.

Yes, I am glad these guys got the G&B made and that Peter is selling Indy jackets and that Todd just developed a great Indy Jacket too.

When I get in my car in the morning I don't feel the need to praise Henry Ford for his hard work nor the need to thank Tom Edison when I turn the lights on.

It's all history to me. It just Amazes me how grown men can get into such heated arguements about the clothing worn by a fictional character in a 25 year old film.

Cheers,
G-MANN

[pitfallharry]

It seems to me certain people are trying to re-position themselves in the gear "folklore" before the wave of new interest toward Indy heats up with the new film just around the corner.

I don't know why there is a sudden barrage of new interest in the US Wings stuff either. I'm sure the jackets are fine and at one point early on I almost bought one. I decided though that for a little bit more I could have a better jacket and one made from the company that supplied the jacket for Raiders.......Wested!

I know the G&B jackets are great and "tough as nails" but even at $400 the jackets price was a little bit to "salty" for me and now they've gone and raised it to $500! Again, just in time for the wave of new interest in Indiana Jones to get started.

If I buy anymore jackets it will either be from Todd or Wested. I'm just not interested in any of the other offerings out there at the moment.

I think it's shame that all of these old arguments are being brought up again and Peter seems to be taking the brunt of it. I can't see him providing the jackets that much longer if this continues....What's the point? This behavior is like "biting the hand that feeds you". I know there have been recent concerns over Wested's QC as of late but I think if you look at the big picture this is just a small blemish on otherwise stellar service from a vendor. We all very well could have been paying $500 for his jackets.

It's bickering and backstabbing stuff like this that really makes pause and consider just walking away from this hobby altogether.

[GCR]

pitfallharry said:

It's bickering and backstabbing stuff like this that really makes pause and consider just walking away from this hobby altogether.

Exactly, PH. Same here.

Though I wouldn't call a steady stream of complaints, mistakes, poor communication and occasionally unresponsive customer service from Wested a "small blemish". It is a major issue that must be dealt with. The problem is, to try and convince Peter to remedy the CS & QC situation becomes that much harder when all these old issues keep popping back up. Why should he go to any trouble for a community that seeks to paint him as a liar and a con-man? And that's not fair to the fans who simply want a quality jacket for a decent price.

-GCR

[Deleted]

pitfallharry said:

It's bickering and backstabbing stuff like this that really makes pause and consider just walking away from this hobby altogether.

That is the main reason I do not wander far from here very often any more.

Cheers,
G-MANN

[winstonwolf359]

Well, I certainly wouldn't leave the hobby over this stuff, especially as of now it's fairly easy to ignore.

But I agree, I really can't understand why as of this past week there have been so many posts about tearing down Peter's involvement in the Indy jacket.

I think there needs to be honest commentary about a vendor's wares because it helps both sides of the deal: The buyer gets an improved product, and the seller gets to keep selling. However, it is easy (especially over the internet) to go way past "constructive" criticism and go right for the throat. Which is what we're seeing now.

Sadly, I've seen WAY too often that 99% of these smear campaigns are motivated by a desire to position "X" over "Y" and "Z." Why the sudden surge of trying to "set the record straight?" What is the motivation behind it? I don't know, but I'm sure a few months down the road any ulterior motives will be plainly obvious to everyone.

Which is sad. It's just a jacket. Every one of the jacket manufacturers offers something different enough that there is room in the hobby for ALL of them. And I think that all of them should be able to stand on their own merits without needing the extra "cheerleading." I think the Indygear community is too small to absorb the hard feelings these little pissing contests create, and in the end what will we have to show for all the effort? Another leather jacket...

[agent5]

This behavior is like "biting the hand that feeds you".

Exactly, but why should he care if he has no intention of getting another Wested? Then it will be the rest of us who will suffer.

Well, I certainly wouldn't leave the hobby over this stuff, especially as of now it's fairly easy to ignore.

While I can't seem to ignore it, it just doesn't bother me as much as it used to. The bottom line is that it seems some people just don't change.

[Deleted]

I am going to just sit back and relax and wait for it all to blow over.



Cheers,
G-MANN

[pitfallharry]

gmann said:

I am going to just sit back and relax and wait for it all to blow over.



Cheers,
G-MANN

;D ;D ;D


Sounds like the best way to deal with all of this.

[Kt. Templar]

You're all right, time to step back and allow it to burn itself out. I don't think I've been confrontational or aggressive in this discussion. I know the other side has been. I guess if I ignore him he'll pretty much carry on as normal.

The Cooper/Wings positiion is interesting, doubly so as Cooper has "ceased trading".

I come to terms with other people making jackets, be they Wings, G&B, Us Authentic, Todd or Magnoli.

I like custom sizing so a couple of the above fall by the wayside a jacket is no good to me if it doesn't fit, I like low pricing so other will rule temselves out too,

I came to the hobby after the so called "Jacket wars", can someone enlighten us and also what happened to those who left after that wave?

[Ragingblues]

It's funny how the winds of friendship and good tidings seem to blow in whatever direction will benefit certain people. Time and time again it happens in this hobby, and there is always one of two motives behind it; 1. Money to be made, 2. Creating a name for themselves.

I completely agree with John, in that I could care less what the history of the indy jacket was anymore. I was curious at first, like many are when getting into this hobby. But, I have completely arrived at a place on the issue, where I don't care who made what for the movies at all. I only care what the clothing, gear, props look like... and where the best places are to get them. I believe those are the two greatest concerns to anyone getting into this hobby, or for many who are already in it.

Ken

[Tyrloch]

I agree with a lot of the points being made. While I strive to get as close to SA as possible, my gear doesn't necessarily have to be by the original maker. For example, my whips are from Strain & Bernardo, and not only because they're cheaper than Morgans, but also because they're a better offering than his current product. I also own both an Akubra & an AB, but no Herbert Johnson.
So even though I do own a Wested, and I like it, I think that Todd's jacket looks very nice, and so does Flightsuits. I may buy one of both of these jackets in the future...for they both look closer to what I think I see onscreen. I will buy gear from whoever I feel is making the best product, both in quality & SA.
I also don't know what went on during the so-called "Jacket Wars", and I really don't care. To me, this is just a hobby -- one that I really enjoy, but it's not worth getting into a slugfest over...

~Jace

[GCR]

kttemplar said:

I came to the hobby after the so called "Jacket wars", can someone enlighten us and also what happened to those who left after that wave?

Not sure what your question is exactly, KT...Do you want to be enlightened as to what the "jacket wars" were? And you want to know what became of the people who left (the hobby?) after that whole incident? Is that your question?

-GCR

[Ragingblues]

tyrloch said:

I agree with a lot of the points being made. While I strive to get as close to SA as possible, my gear doesn't necessarily have to be by the original maker. For example, my whips are from Strain & Bernardo, and not only because they're cheaper than Morgans, but also because they're a better offering than his current product. I also own both an Akubra & an AB, but no Herbert Johnson.
So even though I do own a Wested, and I like it, I think that Todd's jacket looks very nice, and so does Flightsuits. I may buy one of both of these jackets in the future...for they both look closer to what I think I see onscreen. I will buy gear from whoever I feel is making the best product, both in quality & SA.
I also don't know what went on during the so-called "Jacket Wars", and I really don't care. To me, this is just a hobby -- one that I really enjoy, but it's not worth getting into a slugfest over...

~Jace

I'm with you as well Jace.

Ken