Another reason not to buy from Jrzjoe on ebay!

[bullwhips]

Well in case you needed another reason to not buy a whip from Jrzjoe on ebay here's one more:

He's infringing on my copyrighted image!

Take a look at this auction: www.ebay.com/itm/Stock-man-Bull-Whip-kit-Build-your-own-Bullwhip-/150559781368#ht_7997wt_867

The picture in question is of the completed whip, which shows the whip on a black wooden table top. It looks an awful lot like the second picture at bullwhips.org/?p=3754.

The only difference between the pictures in the one on jrzjoe's ebay listing has removed my website slug at the bottom! Since my slug was removed someone over at the Jrzjoe organization knowingly stole...I mean didn't steal, but infringed (which is the legal term for stealing intellectual property) my copyrighted image.

I notified ebay of the copyright infringement and hopefully my intellectual property will be taken off this listing by ebay.

Louie
bullwhips.org
P.S. If you want a peter jack stock whip kit when I bought mine it was $75 shipped to the USA or about 25% less than Jrzjoes. You can find them at the bottom of Peter Jack's in stock page: www.thewhipman.co.nz/Stock%20list.html

[niagrawhipco]

Unfortunately I purchased one of his crappy "whip like objects" when I first got interested in collecting Indy gear. After I got it, and learned more about what an actual whip is, I swore his products off. Sad to know that he's stealing images as well.

[indianasloan]

I've actually had one of his listings in my watch list. Good to get the real scoop before I wasted thirty bucks on it.

[niagrawhipco]

You're FAR better off saving your money and investing in a good looking, actually functional whip. Jrzjoe has a piece of rope for his whip core, among other things, thus the reason I would call his work a "whip-like object". As the old whip maker's adage goes, a whip is like a man. No guts, no good.

[bullwhips]

Well it looks like the system works and ebay pulled the auction! Woo Hoo!

So if you are just now reading this thread the auction link doesn't work anymore...but you can find a cached version on my blog: bullwhips.org/?p=5096

Louie

[jeremym]

I've seen a picture of the internals of a jrzjoe whip, tissue paper.

Honestly leather is much easier to use than that, I imagine it

ripping too easily when plaiting etc.

[California Jones]

LOL years back in a Galaxy far far away the first whips i saw online were from jrzjoe and remember saying to myself what horrible looking crappy whip and never looked at them again

[jrzjoe]

The picture you saw and the deception 10 plait is not the same as jrzjoe's one of my bullwhip I only sell 8 or 12 plait in similar style, looks like a cat woman look a like to me. How ever if I remember right I did sell several special made, extra low cost to order to be used in a school play several years ago. Maybe that is one of them. Yes I do sell some low cost cheeply made whips but I also sell what I believe the best bullwhip for the money, costing about $500 less at about $300 than similar bullwhips. Look if a buyer dose not like I have no problem with them returning it for a full refund. More costly whip I repair for free for 6 months. I believe you'll like if not love my best whips costing about $300 even if you have a $800 whip as some other have had. Again try it, if you do not find it better than what you have return it. Jrzjoe / Joe

[fifthchamber]

Care to list the build from the core up?

I've seen some of your whips with paper in them? Why was this ever considered by you? What possible benefit did you see to using the paper in the construction?

For 300 dollars, I expect a fair bit actually...You'd be surprised how many decent dealers sell high quality whips for that price....And from what I've (We've all) seen yours are miles behind them...Not even in the same class...

Any more you could add to why you decided to use paper?

[indianasloan]

And while your at it I'd like to know why you used someone else's work to try and pass off as your own? I'd also love to know why you have a crop top cobra shirt and freaking lion cub draped over you?!

[jeremym]

Jan 17, 2012 7:51:00 GMT -5 jrzjoe said:

The picture you saw and the deception 10 plait is not the same as jrzjoe's one of my bullwhip I only sell 8 or 12 plait in similar style, looks like a cat woman look a like to me. How ever if I remember right I did sell several special made, extra low cost to order to be used in a school play several years ago. Maybe that is one of them. Yes I do sell some low cost cheeply made whips but I also sell what I believe the best bullwhip for the money, costing about $500 less at about $300 than similar bullwhips. Look if a buyer dose not like I have no problem with them returning it for a full refund. More costly whip I repair for free for 6 months. I believe you'll like if not love my best whips costing about $300 even if you have a $800 whip as some other have had. Again try it, if you do not find it better than what you have return it. Jrzjoe / Joe

the only time you'll pay $800 for a whip less than 12 ft. long is if

you buy from David Morgan.com $800 for an 8 footer there,

while most whip makers sell an 8 ft. kangaroo whip, 12 plait for

around $500. For $300 dollars, the best quality whip for the

price right now, NO ARGUMENTS AVAILABLE HERE, is Dusty Damrel

at Crease n' Corral. He makes cowhide whip's worth $400+ , but

sells them for much less.

There is no dispute about this among anyone, but yourself.

He is the best quality for the price.

Now regarding people returning them. The people that buy whip's

from you are completely uneducated about whips. I've heard

stories from new people over and over again, they bought a

whip from you, and they couldn't crack it. They thought it was

them, and eventually gave up. We are trying to preserve the

art of whip cracking and whip making, not discourage it, which is

what your whips do. Very few that buy a whip from you that

are actually wanting to crack continue to crack, because the

whips don't work right.

[jrzjoe]

I've been ask if I sold whip kit, I did not and did not want to try and make any, to much work have to make for one thing a DVD for the kit. So I started selling a Stockwhip kit I get from The whipman Peter Jack been selling it for a few years. When first listed I did not included a finished pictures and someone ask for one so I searched Peter Jack Stock whip picture and that took me to a picture site with several pictures with no know owner or any thing else on the pictures, I really though it was a Peter Jack picture. Any way that picture is removed and replace with a picture Peter sent me. Why make such a big case about the picture and calling me names, I would have and you could have ask for me to remove. My pictures are all over the place, frankly my dear I don't give a hoot. Kina flattering. If you do not believe check it out for your self, search Peter Jack Stockwhip pictures

[jeremym]

I believe I just found that "I also sell what I believe the best bullwhip for the money," whip you have on ebay.

Please pay attention to taper! It's SO important! That whip tapers

for the first foot or two then stays almost straight the rest of

the way! If you claim to actually care about whip's and the making

of them, then try to better yourself, to make better whips. People

who don't do this with regards to making whip's DO NOT care

about it at all.

[jrzjoe]

Gee: If you aready know how to crack a bullwhip, buy a $20 Bullwhip 8ft 4 plait that my 5 year old son can crack, buy it your self if you can not crack it ez, I pay you an extra $10 to sent it back. Sure there are a few people who are unable to crack my whips and would be the same if it were anyones whips. Don't you agree? Several months ago I received an email criticizing my bullwhips just like many here. I made similar offer and he purchased one of my whips and this is the feedback I received. from one who knows whips--absolutely incredible craftsmanship, fast shipping! Buyer:
Member id zeris9 ( Feedback Score Of 45) Oct-19-11 18:17
BULL WHIP INDIANA JONES 10ft 12p CRYSTAL SKULL BULLWHIP (#150470489580)

[jeremym]

Yeah I saw that on one of your pages. Just because a person

say's they know whip's, doesn't mean they do. I can honestly

say I know whips. I'm going to say again, if you really cared, by

now your whips would be better. My first leather whip had a

better taper than the $300 whip you sell on your page. MY FIRST

WHIP. How many have you made?

[jeremym]

Jan 17, 2012 9:23:06 GMT -5 jrzjoe said:

I've been ask if I sold whip kit, I did not and did not want to try and make any, to much work have to make for one thing a DVD for the kit. So I started selling a Stockwhip kit I get from The whipman Peter Jack been selling it for a few years. When first listed I did not included a finished pictures and someone ask for one so I searched Peter Jack Stock whip picture and that took me to a picture site with several pictures with no know owner or any thing else on the pictures, I really though it was a Peter Jack picture. Any way that picture is removed and replace with a picture Peter sent me. Why make such a big case about the picture and calling me names, I would have and you could have ask for me to remove. My pictures are all over the place, frankly my dear I don't give a hoot. Kina flattering. If you do not believe check it out for your self, search Peter Jack Stockwhip pictures

And explain this, why did you take the "http://BULLWHIPS.ORG"

off of the bottom of that picture you found that "had no known

owner"?

[jrzjoe]

I continually improve, How every I can not do much with a low cost starter whip costing $20 can I?, Hundreds and hundreds of people start with one of those's. .Those were the ones I started sell on ebay 14-15 years ago and never stop. Many of those whips are still in service today. Nothing wrong with then, look cheep to those who are in the know. The leather quality is not the best but OK and if taken care of, leather conditioner etc will last forever. Should I stop and other stop selling them how many new people would take up a bullwhip hobby. Of the thousands of buyers a yr, I sell only a few to first timers buying a $200 or $300 whip to start I am sure some of my buyer have went on to learn and purchased a more costly whip, some from me and some from others who benefited from my $20 sales.

[jrzjoe]

The person who I was talking about made the same case as you, he just sold I believe it was a Morgan whip on ebay, he stated something like he hated to part with some of his whips but needed the money I believe it sold for about a grand, I made reference to that sale in my first new listing of my new best / I think better bullwhip. He email me complaining about that. Being a good salesman I talked him in to buying my bullwhip to try and that was his reply, and he still has it. I make you the same offer and you could put this slander to rest. Remember I pay for the return if you do not like all I'll ask is to be able to uses your reply and feedback

[jrzjoe]

It was a picture with nothing on it, nothing at all. Look for your self. search.aol.com/aol/search?query=picture+peter+jack+stockwhip+picture&s_it=keyword_rollover

[jrzjoe]

Soory wrong address. See if this works. search.aol.com/aol/image?q=picture+peter+jack+stockwhip+picture&v_t=keyword_rollover

[jrzjoe]

Well it did not work anyway I typed in Peter Jack Stockwhip picture took me to .http://search.aol.com/aol/imag with several pictures none of them having anything on the pictures. Same thing for my pictures. BLANK.

[bullwhips]

Jrzjoe,

Here's three questions that I'd liked answered:

1. In all of the links you provided my picture has my website slug at the bottom...but you removed it in your picture. It didn't magicially disappear and if it was in fact peter jacks picture why would he put my slug on it?

2. Why when you click every single picture to enlarge it so you can see it better in the links YOU provided above do they say "Image May Be Subject To Copyright" but somehow you don't manage to see that on your computer?

3. Why are you exempt from AOL's Terms of Service specifically:
"The Services and the content provided on the Services are protected by copyright, trademark, patent, trade secret, international treaties, laws, and other proprietary rights, and also may have security components that protect digital information. You agree that you will not take any action to interfere with anyone’s rights in their content and you will not attempt to circumvent any mechanisms for preventing the unauthorized reproduction or distribution of content"

I'd love to hear your answers to those three questions.

xoxo

Louie

[jeremym]

I know that just about any whip will "crack". However what I look

for in a whip, is not just a crack. I look for how easily it cracks,

how well it handles, does it jerk your arm? Does it flow out straight?

etc. etc. etc. The only whip I've sold on ebay I believe was worth

well over $400 , but I had to sell it for $270 because I know people

wouldn't buy it. It had a nice even taper, straight seams, uniform

strands, etc. It cracked very easily, with hardly any effort. The

heel knot was nicely shaped and comfortably fit in your palm.

You probably could honestly sell an 8 foot 12 plait roo whip

for $300 on ebay, and more people would buy it, if you just

improved the insides of the whip. The overlay is just the

part of the whip that makes it look nice, now it's important but

the insides are the most important, if a whip has a nice looking

overlay but horribly insides, it's not going to work right.

Just take these things into considering in the future.

On another note, I would like to see Louie's ( bullwhips is his

username ) questions answered also.

[indianasloan]

Jrzjoe,

My dear sir I respectfully offer my opinion to you that your whips are CRAP. You sir are a dishonest louse who is out for nothing more than to make a quick buck and you care nothing about quality or your customers. Perform a search on jrzjoe whip reviews and you will see my sentiments echoed time and time again. You produce and sell an inferior product and do so under false pretenses by stealing pictures of REAL whips produced by REAL whipmakers. You sir are an insult to all those who care about their craft and I bid you good day.

David

[bullwhips]

Oh I'm not sure this is the right place to announce a new product, but here's trailer for it: youtu.be/eepsb8wcS7E

More details are in the description of the video on youtube. These are in stock and ready to ship!

Louie