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Post by Ragingblues on Apr 1, 2007 13:36:09 GMT -5
Marc, from what I heard the NH shirt is very thin, So for us european's especially our part of europe its not something you can wear unless it's really really hot. Will you take that into account too? Let me make this really simple for those who have never owned or worn a Noel Howard shirt. It is not too thin or too lightweight for an indy shirt, as it is exactly what you saw on Harrison Ford's back in the movies... period. Is any shirt really worth $115 plus shipping for daily wear? Not in my opinion. I would never pay that much for a regular use shirt. Is it worth that much to get the actual design, color, and material worn by Harrison Ford in the movies? To me... yes it is. This is the only purpose I have for a screen accurate Indy shirt, and I have no need of it being heavier or made from a different fabric. I would never wear a pleated shirt for any other purpose. Marc, I was just wondering what the reason was that you chose the MBA label. I have no doubt that the shirts may have varied in minute details like the jackets and hats did. So, it only makes sense that a rushed production of shirts back then, may have included some variances... even in color. Ken
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Post by GCR on Apr 1, 2007 13:36:53 GMT -5
Why make another shirt if it's going to be wrong again? Quite frankly, I think a wrong shirt is just what we need. Things have gotten TOO Screen-accurate, and we all need to tke a step back. Screen-accuracy doesn't help ANYONE. What we need is an excellent Indy "style" shirt...say, something more toned down, without the pleats and epaulettes and maybe just one pocket. Even a short-sleeved version! And forget cotton, Rayon is the way to go. And buttons are so 19th century, I think velcro would work far better. And that color! Bleah! Forget that "blah" tan color, a nice shade of orange or yellow would look smashing! Or not... -GCR
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Post by indianatone on Apr 1, 2007 23:29:15 GMT -5
You know, GCR, I was going to continue arguing in favor of the NH style in cut and material but you've brought things to light. I can't argue with that. Things have gotten too screen accurate in this hobby. A nice, brownish-orange canvas shirt would do very nicely. But no epaulettes. Please!
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Post by pitfallharry on Apr 2, 2007 8:02:03 GMT -5
Any chance this new shirt could be made out of burlap? I don't care if it's SA I want something that irritates the out of my skin. Better yet make the shirt out of hemp and that way I can smoke it before I climb up on the roof of my house and whip a nearby tree branch and go swinging off. It should help with the pain once I fall and break my legs.
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agent5
Treasure Seeker
Posts: 424
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Post by agent5 on Apr 2, 2007 8:39:49 GMT -5
I think a cashmere lined burlap shirt would be kick ass! In orange/green, please.
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Post by Tyrloch on Apr 2, 2007 10:19:59 GMT -5
Where does the Magnoli shirt fit into all of this? Is it just a fabric issue, or is the cut not as exact either? He seems to make everything custom to your measurements, so I would think it could only be the fabric offering...
~Jace
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Post by Ragingblues on Apr 2, 2007 11:32:01 GMT -5
The Magnoli shirt I have is way to dressy feeling and in the cut itself. It's actually the least accurate of the current offerings, so the ability to custom size it makes no difference to me.
Ken
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Post by Tyrloch on Apr 2, 2007 11:35:36 GMT -5
Oh, after all the great things said about Magnoli's other offering, I would've thought his Adventure Shirt a close hit to the mark...I guess not.
~Jace
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Post by Ragingblues on Apr 2, 2007 11:40:55 GMT -5
His design may have improved a bit since the version I have, I'm not sure. But, I know the fabric hasn't changed (based on seeing other people's photos).
The Indy shirt has some critical elements to it's design that has been overlooked by other people attempting to make a replica. Between the missing links and getting the right fabric, there is nothing I would recommend over the actual Indy shirt... the Noel Howard.
Ken
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Post by Tyrloch on Apr 2, 2007 12:33:15 GMT -5
Well, this thread makes me glad that I haven't purchased a shirt from anyone yet -- probably saved me a mistake or 2...thanks Ken.
~Jace
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Steve
Treasure Seeker
Posts: 257
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Post by Steve on Apr 21, 2007 10:59:49 GMT -5
What I wish someone would do is not make a shirt with fabric that's just screen-accurate. I want something that is situation-accurate. Something that I could slide down a thirty foot embankment of hard-packed earth and fallen trees (a very real risk on some of the trips I've taken,) and not be torn to shreds when I get to the bottom. It's always frustrated me that no one has offered a shirt with the front pleats that's not made out of dress fabric or priced at 100+ dollars. I love the look of the Indy shirt, it's incredibly adaptable, but the ones they're making now just aren't practical.
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Post by GCR on Apr 21, 2007 12:04:37 GMT -5
What I wish someone would do is not make a shirt with fabric that's just screen-accurate. I want something that is situation-accurate. Something that I could slide down a thirty foot embankment of hard-packed earth and fallen trees (a very real risk on some of the trips I've taken,) and not be torn to shreds when I get to the bottom. It's always frustrated me that no one has offered a shirt with the front pleats that's not made out of dress fabric or priced at 100+ dollars. I love the look of the Indy shirt, it's incredibly adaptable, but the ones they're making now just aren't practical. That's an excellent point. I think I threw this question out there earlier in this thread, but I don't think I ever got an answer. The issue at the heart of this whole debate is really what type of shirt do people really want? A perfectly, 100%, screen-accurate shirt, made from the exact material, with the right color, design and button placement? OR A shirt that is made from the screen-accurate patterns, in a screen-accurate color but that will actually hold-up to extensive wear and tear. I already have a shirt I feel is plenty "screen-accurate", that being a "Vintage" MBA Raiders shirt. But I would still like another shirt just like it. Then again, I'd love a stronger, more durable version of the Indy shirt as well, that would be less expensive and would handle lots of abuse. So essentially, I, personally, would buy EITHER. Actually, that's not correct, what I mean to say is that I would buy BOTH. Now the question is, which niche do you want to fill with this product, Marc? The 100% SA niche, which the current NH does not apparently fit into (According to you, Marc. I have not seen the newer NH shirts in person, only the older MBA versions) or niche of a shirt that is 100% SA in terms of color and design but is NOT SA in terms of material, BUT IS built to handle more rugged use? One could make the same argument about the AB deluxe, how in terms of blockshape, ribbon, color, design, etc, it is AMAZINGLY screen-accurate, but in terms of material (Beaver vs. Rabbit) it is not truly 100% SA (and believe me, Marc, this is no knock on your hats, I can understand and I agree with your choice of the Beaver felt). But the material that is used is more rugged and will hold-up better. Is this the kind of philosophy you want to apply to the shirt as well? -GCR
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Post by Ragingblues on Apr 21, 2007 12:23:22 GMT -5
The newer NH design is just as screen accurate as his older design with MBA stamped on it.
Ken
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agent5
Treasure Seeker
Posts: 424
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Post by agent5 on Apr 21, 2007 12:28:48 GMT -5
Ken, you are wrong about that. It is actually MORE screen accurate then the MBA shirts. He did a little tweaking on it.
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Post by GCR on Apr 21, 2007 12:32:15 GMT -5
The newer NH design is just as screen accurate as his older design with MBA stamped on it. Ken Like I said, Ken, it was Marc's assertion that the newer NH shirts had a few minor details "off" in their design. I personally have never seen the new NH shirts, but I would see no reason why Noel would choose to alter anything on his existing shirts other than the tag inside. I'm curious as to what some of these differences might be, as I also am willing to trust Marc's eye for detail when it comes to this stuff. Maybe there is something different, I honestly don't know. However, if the current NH shirts are indeed the same as the MBA, then I think the whole idea of creating yet another "100% screen-accurate shirt" might be a waste if the NH is indeed already occupying that niche, unless of course Marc's version is considerably more affordable. Otherwise the Adventurebilt shirt should follow the same philosophy of the hats, and be as SA as possible but be constructed out of the appropriate materials that would qualify it as being "Built for Adventure". That's my take, anyway. I am curious, Marc, as to what parts of the NH shirt you feel are lacking. I recall you bringing it up before, but I don't remember the details you discussed. -GCR
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Post by Ragingblues on Apr 21, 2007 12:32:37 GMT -5
Sorry... that's actually what I meant to type! Thanks for the correction, as the truth needs to be known about how great his shirts are! Ken
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Post by GCR on Apr 21, 2007 12:34:47 GMT -5
Ken, you are wrong about that. It is actually MORE screen accurate then the MBA shirts. He did a little tweaking on it. Yeah, that would make more sense to me, that Noel would improve on his design over time, rather than making it less accurate. If this is the case, then I'll once again throw my vote out there for a real "Built for Adventure" AB shirt. -GCR
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agent5
Treasure Seeker
Posts: 424
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Post by agent5 on Apr 21, 2007 13:10:26 GMT -5
When I heard Noel was going back to business I contacted him and asked if he could make two permanent changes to the shirt. I asked if he could make certain the Raiders shirts had the correct botton placement and if he could tighten up the pattern a little as the MBA was juuuuuuuust a bit baggy. I sent him several screen caps to illustrate what I was talking about. Now, I'm not sure if he took my advice or was already planning on making those changes, but he did do it according to those I've talked to that own one. I've not seen one of the new ones but he did fix the button placement and the new shirts do look more form fitting. I love my MBA shirts as they are still far more accurate than anything else. Some of the very older MBA shirts had the correct button placement. I think it was just something he overlooked a bit.
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Post by GCR on Apr 21, 2007 14:06:35 GMT -5
...and if he could tighten up the pattern a little as the MBA was juuuuuuuust a bit baggy. Baggy? I'm lucky my MBA still fits! Oh man, do I feel like a fat-ass... ;D -GCR
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Post by Marc on Apr 21, 2007 16:49:56 GMT -5
From what I read here, it seems like I have been comparing a very old MBA shirt with one of the first NH shirts... And they WERE different. Period! The epauletes (sp?) were just one thing.
The MBA shirt I had (which is now given to my contact in China), is absolutely s.a. as far as I can tell, after comparing it to countless screen graps. It fits tight and nice and I am truly thrilled by both the fit and the craftmanship. Something I requested to have copied down to the very last detail (incl. custom made buttons in the right color, size and everything).
Since most people wanted an exact copy of the original shirt for a much more affordable price (or: a shirt that we can actually treat the way we'd like to, without having a bad feeling about it - as someone put it so very well), I went after that, instead of the bullet proof kevlar version, I had in mind originally. Whether or not my contact will be able to create as exact an replica as requested... we'll see. I think I pointed out at least a dozen times (within one hour), that others could reproduce a shirt, where the buttons are "really close" etc. etc. etc., but that this just wouldn't do and that I wanted something, that NO-ONE could tell appart from the original, even if it would be right in front of him. So I guess I made my points clear. It'll take some time yet, before he has sourced the exact same cotton, custom dyed it, custom made buttons etc. etc. etc., so don't expect pics of a prototype soon. But if I can get the "same" shirt for a fair price, I think we all would have a gain from that.
Regards,
Marc
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Post by IndyBlues on Apr 21, 2007 16:54:06 GMT -5
Marc,...color me interested. 'Blues
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Post by Marc on Apr 21, 2007 17:21:00 GMT -5
Oh gosh, it's WAY too early for an interest thread as of now. Junyu (my Chinese contact) might as well tell me, that it's not possible to replicate this shirt as detailed as I want to or perhaps it would be even more expensive than the current NH shirts. I'm looking into it, as many people (incl. myself) just can't afford to spend this much on a shirt or rather just save a little more, and buy a second hand bullwhip. If it gains any results... time will tell. So now you know why I haven't been updating this thread for so long. I just don't want to get people excited and then let them down later on. That wouldn't be fair IMHO.
Regards,
Marc
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