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Post by Marc on Mar 30, 2007 9:44:02 GMT -5
Hey there,
if you have the opportunity to get a dead on screen accurate shirt made based on an original MBA Raiders shirt from back in the 80'ies, what would you want.
Personally, I'd really like to see something that is tough as nails without losing it's screen accuracity - think of a custome vs. real world shirt or beaver vs. rabbit felt.
What about you? What would have it made of? 100 poplin? Pure cotton? The exact same material that the original had?
Please share your opinions.
Thanks,
Marc
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Post by Kt. Templar on Mar 30, 2007 10:20:41 GMT -5
Although pure cotton is nice, high cotton with a touch (10-20%?) of artifical fibre (don't know which!) is easier to look after and perhaps a little tougher.
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Post by indianatone on Mar 30, 2007 10:55:58 GMT -5
Probably no "brownie" points here but I really like the material on the current NH. I know it's been described as costumey, etc. but on hot days it's about as comfortable as a shirt can be. My experience with the NH (of today) is that it is NOT a flimsy shirt in terms of wear. It's been through several washes and shows no signs of thinning or wearing out. I'd rather have a few of them look and feel like the original rather than one that might be a bit too thick to lay right, etc. I really like the material on the NH.
However, if more durable does come into play, my vote would be something closest to what LL Bean uses on theirs.
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Post by winstonwolf359 on Mar 30, 2007 10:57:47 GMT -5
Well, not to sound like a smart-ass, but a shirt not made out of the same material as the screen used shirt wouldn't be "dead on screen accurate."
I'm all for options, but I think the starting point of any Indy shirt project should be the original material; anything else should be a (distant) second thought.
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Post by Marc on Mar 30, 2007 11:08:02 GMT -5
Hmmm... I think I sound a bit biased in my original post... That wasn't my intention, as I'm really curious about what you would chose if you had the oportunity. I perfectly understand the advantage of a light weight shirt. There's no brownies to be won or lost, just interested in honest opinions. Don't try to give any answers that you think is what I'd like to hear, as such doesn't exist  Or rather, whatever you think THAT'S what I'd like to know. Regards, Marc |
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Post by indianatone on Mar 30, 2007 11:16:20 GMT -5
No, I meant brownie points in terms of those who might start thinking of an opportunity like this to build "the ultimate, indestructible, Indy shirt" and start thinking of all the terrific ways an Indy shirt could be made to withstand the harshest of jungle conditions and combat scenarios they'll almost never find themselves in by requesting Kevlar, etc. to the point where they've created anything but an Indy shirt. And yes, it would sort of un Screen-Accuratize it by possibly affecting how the thing lays, wrinkles, etc. I'd be just fine with the "costumey" mercerized cotton, basically. (except maybe that one extra button at the bottom for us "ponchies".)  |
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Steve
Treasure Seeker
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Post by Steve on Mar 30, 2007 11:18:36 GMT -5
Cotton Poplin would be my first choice.
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Post by Kt. Templar on Mar 30, 2007 11:25:58 GMT -5
I'm going to so my ignorance here what IS "poplin"?
I know what mercerized cotton is, the fibres are treated with caustic soda, or acid to make them smoother (and as a result shinier) and more stain resistant. But what is Cotton poplin?
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rick5150
Temple Guard
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Post by rick5150 on Mar 30, 2007 11:34:21 GMT -5
I had a stonewashed lightweight linen shirt that I bought at K-Mart that was WAY better as far as comfort than either the L.L. Bean or the NH shirts. I was far more breathable and it did not stick to you when you got sweaty. The NH is flimsy after repeated washes and I have spots that are wearing through. I know I could easily tear that shirt into pieces. If you were going to make the shirt out of the exact same material, what is the point? You can get that from NH. Even if it was cheaper, you would still want it to be better, right? The lightweight material is the weakest link in that shirt, in my opinion. The NH fits me really well though. I would say to go with a slightly heavier material and make it tougher. You know ...Adventurebilt standards. |
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Post by indianatone on Mar 30, 2007 11:48:02 GMT -5
KT, I don't know the specific breakdown of Cotton Poplin but it is a smoother weave on the shirt, lightweight and pretty durable. Probably the closest thing to the Indy shirt in terms of smoothness while being durable without looking too soft or drapey and also without being too cardboard "military shirt" stiff. Basically that is an LL Bean Field shirt which wouldn't be too bad at all.
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Post by GCR on Mar 30, 2007 12:22:47 GMT -5
By virtue of the fact that my website favorites are listed alphabetically, I caught this topic over at the OGF first. I'll repeat my answer here: A material as close to the original shirt as possible, but perhaps a tad thicker. While my circa 1999 MBA shirt has held up extremely well for the last 8 or so years, and while I wouldn't argue that the thin material is dead on screen-accurate, I WOULD like another shirt of the same design that would be a little more capable and sturdy in real-world use.
And I'd also prefer a shirt that, if you took an iron to it, would look great with a tie and a sport coat. It's a tricky balancing act, but if anyone can pull it off, Marc, I have faith that it's you!
-GCRAnd I'll expand on that by saying that one must ask the following of Marc: What is the intention behind these shirts? Is it to provide the #1, tip-top, super-duper, 100% screen-accurate shirt? Is it to provide a shirt made from a screen-accurate pattern, with screen-accurate details, but that is built to handle heavy use a bit better than some of the other options out there? Or does your decision on which shirt to make hinge on the response you get from us wonderful folks?  -GCR |
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Post by Ragingblues on Mar 30, 2007 12:25:36 GMT -5
My 2 cents and a question:
I have the LL Bean shirt, and I find the material a bit dressy feeling in comparison to the Noel Howard. I have had zero issues with wearability, tearing, thinning, or anything else with the Noel Howard shirt material... so my vote is for the exact same thing or as close a possible. The Old Navy shirt is very close in terms of weight and feel, though the color is too light... of course.
The question is, why are you considering basing the design on the older MBA patterns instead of the current Noel Howard ones? What part of the design do you think is better on his older version?
Ken
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Post by pitfallharry on Mar 30, 2007 12:29:47 GMT -5
A lot of my shirts are 100% cotton and they're very comfortable during the summer and winter (with a t-shirt). My only concern with the material is shrinkage, especially with a slim cut like my F21 shirts.
Tone's description of the Cotton Poplin sounds like the ideal choice. I've seen a lot of military shirts at the surplus shops made from that material. Even though it might not be SA material I would imagine it would be something that was available back around Indy's "time".
So either 100% Cotton or Cotton Poplin would be my suggestion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2007 13:14:47 GMT -5
I am going with the ORIGINAL Fabric for the SA look.
Cheers,
G-MANN
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Post by indianadirk on Mar 30, 2007 13:35:48 GMT -5
yep going with the less flimsyness over here too
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Post by Ragingblues on Mar 30, 2007 16:37:29 GMT -5
yep going with the less flimsyness over here too That's just it, the fabric Noel uses is not flimsy at all. Ken |
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rick5150
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Post by rick5150 on Mar 31, 2007 4:25:00 GMT -5
Mine are. And I have 5 of them from various time periods. To be fair, I did redye 3 of them and that certainly may have contributed to the flimsy feel. The other two are still in the package, but still feel as if they are not as rugged as a comparable dress shirt, even.
To be fair, the word flimsy is probably not as accurate as lightweight. But the cloth is wearing thin in areas WAY faster than my L.L. Bean which went through a much more vigorous color-removal process.
I would have expected more durability if I spent that kind of money on any other shirt, but I realize that the cost is correlated with the history of the shirt.
People seem to like the lightweight aspect of the shirt, but I do not find mine all that breathable. I tried using them while hiking, and when I hike it is often in the 90's. At times, since the cotton is so tightly woven, I feel like I am wearing Saran Wrap as it sticks to me. The material reminds me of a bedsheet. Wrap one around yourself and wet it. That is how my NH shirts feel. I usually wind up rolling the sleeves up and unbuttoning them.
One last sugestion for Marc. Whatever you use, you may want to make the shirts a little bit longer in the body than NH.
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Post by Marc on Mar 31, 2007 16:09:48 GMT -5
I'm all with you Rick and Griff! - If the "only" advantage over the NH shirt would be a price that won't make you feel "guilty" when treating it "Indy style", then why bother? But it seems like most people want exactly that and now it's up to me to make up my mind, if I want to make myself happy and thereby perhaps driving the entire idea a little over the edge (as usal) or if I for an instance should just stick to what's considered tried and true...
Regards,
Marc
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Post by Ragingblues on Mar 31, 2007 18:23:22 GMT -5
My feelings about the Indy shirt are very simple... I have no, as in zero intention of wearing a shirt that has pleats on it, in any fashion other than with Indy gear. I only wear full Indy clothing/gear when I am taking photos for fun, making videos, or going somewhere in full costume. So, I have no interest in buying or wearing an Indy shirt that is less screen accurate than the Noel Howard. Close enough shirts or spirit of shirts don't have the pleats, so I would/do wear those while hiking, or for other purposes. There are plenty of close enough or spirit of Indy shirst out there now, in different fabrics. For the real thing, I want the real thing only.
To me there is a big difference in the terms flimsy and lighweight. I'm not picking at minor wordings here or attempting to argue a point. I'm simply saying that lightweight means something completely different that flimsy does. Certain high density materials are more sturdy than others and are still lighter in weight. When I hear someone describe something as flimsy, I picture an item than can barely hold itself together... which doesn't describe the NH shirt at all. Again, I know this was just a term used out of context, so I'm not playing word games on purpose. But, for people who have never owned or worn a NH shirt to think of it as flimsy in any way, would be very misleading. The same goes for the color, which is dead on screen accurate.
I personally don't want an Indy shirt made of anything except the NH material, as that is the only thing that works best. The LL Bean shirt material would not be a good choice either, as it's too thick and less comfortable to me. Is the Noel Howard shirt worth the money he charges? Yes and No. No, because no shirt should cost $115 plus shipping. Yes, because nothing else comes close to being "The Indy Shirt".
Finally, Marc.... I think you missed my question above. What part of the Noel Howard design do you feel isn't as accurate as his older design with the MBA label?
Ken
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Post by Marc on Apr 1, 2007 2:20:14 GMT -5
Sorry Ken, I had been working on the parkett in my wife's room for over 10 hours when answering yesterday. I guess I was kind of exhausted and forgot what was written above, once I came to the botton. Ok, when I compared the MBA shirt with the NH shirt from Erri last automn, I realized some VERY tiny differences (the tip of the epaulettes and such). So I thought that the NH shirt might not be THAT screan accurate after all, but stand corrected on that one, as it is. In fact - who knows if they didn't have both kind of epaulettes during the movie? - So it's not my intention to say anything bad about the NH shirt, as I just can't. I think it's a nice shirt that I WOULD wear on a daily basis, if only it wouldn't be so darn expensive. Granted - being the "gear has to withstand a nuclear bombing"- kind of guy, I personally would love to see something that by no means can be torn appart. I'm not saying that the NH shirt is flimsy or so, but as Tone pointed out, I'd like to see it bullet proof So, I wanted to hear what YOU guys would like to see on an Indy shirt (takin' the screen accuracy and quality for given). Regards, Marc |
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Post by indianadirk on Apr 1, 2007 8:24:32 GMT -5
Marc,
from what I heard the NH shirt is very thin,
So for us european's especially our part of europe its not something you can wear unless it's really really hot.
Will you take that into account too?
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Post by Marc on Apr 1, 2007 8:38:18 GMT -5
We have the advantage of being able to wear an underskirt underneath Dirk, while the people living in warmer countries would get some strange remarks if they'd wear a bottomed up shirt all day Regards, Marc |
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Post by Kt. Templar on Apr 1, 2007 9:43:01 GMT -5
We have the advantage of being able to wear an underskirt underneath Dirk, while the people living in warmer countries would get some strange remarks if they'd wear a bottomed up shirt all day Regards, Marc Must resist, must resist, must resist. (like my spelling is anything to brag about!)Sorry Marc! |
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Post by indianadirk on Apr 1, 2007 11:18:57 GMT -5
No but with the wested shirt you can see through it , if you wear a white shirt under it  so why not get it a little sturdier from the start |
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Post by indianatone on Apr 1, 2007 11:35:16 GMT -5
The Wested and the NH are not the same shirts for starters.
This is a nice opportunity to make the sa shirt for less price. As stated there are already plenty of other shirts for "real world" use. Why make another shirt if it's going to be wrong again?
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