Difference between each leather type.

[Biker Jacket Jones]

I know I have that other general topic going on trying to gather together the "perfect" jacket for me, but I thought I would try to tackle the specific issue of the different types of leather, considering I'm new to leather jackets.

To recap what type of leather I'm looking for, I live in a warm climate, and absolutely do not need a warm-weather jacket, so the less warmth the jacket provides, the better. I won't be putting the jacket through anything rough like motorcycling. I just plan on using it as a general use jacket to wear everyday, so I'm not too incredibly bothered by the reports of lambskin's low tear resistance. Even still, though, I like the safety of knowing that if an accident does happen, or if something unexpected crops up, my jacket will go through with little more than some good old fashioned distressing.

What I actually want is the jacket that provides the least warmth, but the most durability. This is obviously a pipe-dream, since the two seem to be in conflict in that regard, but I'm thinking that I might be able to strike up a good compromise, something that, if I have to go for it or have the option to, will both be more durable and still not melt me in the summer. I also don't wish to get anything pre-distressed just for the sake of it (unless this somehow makes it more durable or otherwise changes more than the appearance). I want any distressing to be natural and come over time.

Let's look at Wested's custom Last Crusade Crystal Sculls Jacket, the one that, if I bought from Wested, I would get. They have:

• Authentic Brown Lambskin
  
• Dk Brown Lambskin
  
• Authentic Brown Goat
  
• Authentic Washed Goat
  
• Worn Look Hide [I'm guessing this is a cowhide of somesort]
  
• Soft Seal Brown Cowhide [is this cowhide the Novapelle, or is it the other one?]
  
• Brown Horse Hide (+$14.38) [price is in U.S. dollars at the time of posting]
  

What I basically want is for the leather types to be put in order from least warmth to most warmth, and then again from least durable to most durable. Low warmth is good, high durability is good. Again, that's a conflict, but I'm just probing my options, and trying to see if there's a more suitable compromise. However, I would be pretty mad if what happened to BiffMan here happens to me, where I can't even wear the thing comfortably. I do have the advantage of being extremely cold-nature (I love the heat to awkward extremes, like finding an unventilated car in 90 degree weather "nice", not running any air conditioning or fans in the summer, etc.), but I still don't want the thing to be unbearable or uncomfortable.

I also might not buy from Wested, since I've gotten nothing in response to any emails I send to any email address I send to, from other people's reports on their service, uncertainty of buying something expensive overseas and having to return it for whatever reason, and, in particular, the issues brought up in Ragingblue's post here. There are other manufacturers' inventories that I'm scrutinizing carefully.

I do fell kind of strange doing little else but asking a bunch of questions and having little to offer in return, but I'm new to leather jackets with zero first-hand experience, and I think some expounding into the different leathers available would help a lot of people like me who are new to buying leather jackets and would like to get started, but don't know how to sift though the options. Since I'm new to the scene, I can't offer anything in return, but my belief is that this is a responsive community willing to help strangers that stop by and need a little advice to get started.

P.S.: Is my avatar showing up, or is it just a blank picture?

[modelmaker4]

I read somewhere that when they were filming Raiders that they chose lambskin because of the fact they were shooting in Tunisia. I have heard good and bad concerning lambskin as to it's durability. I myself have a US wings cowhide that seems pretty damn tough but I don't think I would wear it camping this summer, Although here in Idaho I am still wearing it right now because it doesn't want to get out of the lower 60's. So for Camping I got the Raiders denim for that. Great light jacket I must say.
But hopefully later this summer i can put a custom order in for a LC/CS horsehide from Wested. I have been told it is more durable and tougher than cowhide, but light because it is not as dense as cowhide. I was also told when horsehide is an option, it is the only option because of it's durability. But in the end the choice is yours. Wested has been good about e-mails with me, I hear a lot of their communication problems has to do with their spam filter.

[Biker Jacket Jones]

What you're essentially saying is that, from your opinion and experience, that horsehide is as close to a magic bullet as I can expect in terms of a jacket that's both durable and reasonably cool?

EDIT: Also, concerning U.S. Wings, what cowhide jacket is it? If you look here, there's Antique Cowhide Indy-style Hero Jacket (HEROJACKET), Collectors Edition Signature Series™ Indy-style Vintage Adventurer Jacket (IJVINC), and Signature Series™ Indy-style VIP Adventurer Jacket (IJVIP).

[Kt. Templar]

If you are looking for a light weight jacket look towards the lamb formost then the goat and washed goat. Cow and horse are much heavier jackets.

For strength look towards goat.

Wested do a 'soft goat' which I think would fit you criteria.

To make it more comfortable up to about 65/70 degrees I suggest getting an all cotton interior.

[modelmaker4]

Templar is probably a better source when it comes to the Wested product for sure, I was mostly stating an opinion. But I still think the denim version is a nice jacket. The Us Wings jacket I got is the Signature Series™ Indy-style VIP Adventurer Jacket . I got it off of ebay about a year ago for only $75, it was a lucky find and I was the only bidder which i thought was odd especially for a jacket of that quality.

[Biker Jacket Jones]

May 21, 2010 17:34:29 GMT -5 Kt. Templar said:

If you are looking for a light weight jacket look towards the lamb formost then the goat and washed goat. Cow and horse are much heavier jackets.

For strength look towards goat.

Wested do a 'soft goat' which I think would fit you criteria.

To make it more comfortable up to about 65/70 degrees I suggest getting an all cotton interior.

That's too bad about the cow and horse. I was hoping for a little switch-around, like, for example, even though cow might be more durable than, say, goat, it's not as warm. As I said before, though, this all is probably just a pipe dream.

Soft goat.... Is that what Wested calls "Authentic Brown Goat"? How does it part up with either of their lambskins in terms of warmth? And what is the difference between it and the washed goat? Anything that's on my priorities list, like durability, warmth, etc?

May 21, 2010 18:11:08 GMT -5 modelmaker4 said:

Templar is probably a better source when it comes to the Wested product for sure, I was mostly stating an opinion. But I still think the denim version is a nice jacket. The Us Wings jacket I got is the Signature Series™ Indy-style VIP Adventurer Jacket . I got it off of ebay about a year ago for only $75, it was a lucky find and I was the only bidder which i thought was odd especially for a jacket of that quality.

I know what you mean about eBay. I've been trying to raise money for this "Jacket Crusade" by selling stuff on eBay. The bidding's apocalyptic-ally sparse. I did, however, see a Tony Nowak jacket on eBay rack up at least eight bids one time. I guess people would rather spend $2,000 while shopping on eBay than $20 or even $200.

[Kt. Templar]

You'll need to confirm with them, I'm pretty sure that their current batch of regular goat is the softer type. It has the smooth, slightly shiny 'new leather' finish. It tends not to distress much with normal wear.

Washed goat is a totally matt finish that does distress and take on marks with day to day wear.

Both of the above should be pretty similar in thickness/warmth and that is just slightly more than lamb. The thing with goat is that it's a denser feeling leather so you feel much more confident in it lasting. And it does.

The lamb is a soft dress leather. Which is not a bad thing per se, but it tends to be used for more 'dressed up' jackets and is not really intended for rough handling. That being said mine is nearly 6 years old and the leather has held up nicely.

[Biker Jacket Jones]

Hmmm. I see. Thanks for your input.

So, to recap. If we could arrange these leathers in order, what would it look like? Here's a preliminary list from what I understand. This is, of course, subject to corrections. I also realize that there may be "ties" because of similar leathers, like Dk Brown Lambskin versus Authentic Brown Lambskin.

Durability:

Warmth:

And just to confirm, is their "Work Look Hide" actually cowhide? If so, is it the Novapelle hide that I hear about, or is it the Soft Seal Brown Cowhide? And what would the differences between the two be?

[Kt. Templar]

Very unscientifically, here is my impression.



Worn look hide is a traditional predistressed cowhide, novapelle is a brushed matt look cowhide, it's the closest to the Crystal Skull leather they do (I've been told by people who have both Westeds and Nowaks that the leather seems to be the same process).

[Biker Jacket Jones]

From the looks of your chart, I'll be shortchanging myself if I get cowhide, novapelle cowhide, or worn look cowhide, since the case seems to be exactly the opposite of what I wanted. Instead of getting a hide that is more durable than another hide despite being less warm, those hides are less durable than horse, but are just as warm. Horse is the king in both durability and warmth, which is not the right direction for me, either. That picture leads to your previous statement that the soft goat is the closest thing that matches what I was looking for. It's more durable than washed goat, but provides the same warmth. Your picture has the soft goat as being more durable than the warmer cowhide, which actually surprises me a bit, since I always thought cow was tougher than lamb or goat.

Unfortunately, this picture really doesn't do enough for me to sway from lambskin if lambskin is an available choice, but if, by some strange outside force, lambskin isn't an available choice, I'll have this chart, and maybe some other members' findings posted later on, to look to to make a more informed decision on how to best spend my money. If I get a leather jacket collection going, I'll have my firsthand experience to go on, but until then, all I've got is secondhand experience. If nothing else, this information will server to help others like myself that are surfing the web and lurk here.

[nicholasb]

My experience is only with Wested Indy jackets. I have had lamb, cowhide and Novapelle. I found the cowhide did not drape as well as the other two. I would say with the thickness of Wested's hides, you won't notice a huge difference in warmth. Worn with other clothing, any of these could be an all year round jacket still. I would imagine goat is reasonably tough but one suppliers hide may be different to another.

[Biker Jacket Jones]

It looks like U.S. Wings at one time offered a kangaroo hide jacket (link courtesy of archive.org). I found this very interesting. Did anyone here ever own one of these, or know anything about kangaroo hide? U.S. Wings described it like the "magic" leather I'm looking for--more durable and tougher than lambskin while actually being less warm.

[Pennsylvania Jones]

The link's not working. But yeah, Kangaroo hide is the stuff in whips. Super-tough, yet super-thin. It's mondo-expensive, which is why I'm probably never going to buy any 'Roohide products. I wonder what the price tag on it was? $1,981.12?

Steven

[Biker Jacket Jones]

The link works for me, but it includes an in-page link that jumps to a different part of the page. Try this link instead. The price in 2002 for the kangaroo jacket was $495 plus $19.95 in shipping and handling. That's already more than what they're charging for any of their other Indy jackets in today's dollars, but the kangaroo would probably be even more if it were still being made today. The then and now of their signature series goatskin is $295 and $337, and their signature series lambskin $339 and $399. Reverse engineering those rations into current prices puts a modern kangaroo jacket somewhere in the neighborhood of $565 to $583. Not quite the Giorgio Armani price you suggested, but still more than what a Gibson & Barnes Expedition fetches for.

Small wonder they produced it in limited quantities.

[tekors]

In my opinion (and I come form a leather producer region) there's not a big pratical difference between lambskin to cowhide in terms of durability. And i explain why:

Do you intend to be dragged under a truck anytime soon? And even in tougher enviroments for a lambskin jacket to get messed up you need to be really good in trashed it. Try to do "indiana" movements with a cowhide and see... not pleasant at all.

I prefer the lambskin or then a goatskin. Cowhide is very heavy and warm.

If you take care of the lambskin jacket you can get the aged look and some hard work on it that even though will hold up.

The advantage of lambskin is the weight and warmth... very comfy, light and not that warm... I use mine lambskin in real cold days only using a t-shirt under it. Feeling cold? Wear something heavier under the jacket and voilá.

regards
Teko

[Biker Jacket Jones]

The "lambskin horror stories" that I've heard (the most interesting one was a jacket getting clawed up by a cat, which was detailed in a thread posted on this forum) have not yet to deter me from ordering lambskin. If I was in a colder climate, I'd love to order a soft goatskin. More durability and not a lot of extra warmth. But that is not the case. Warmth is a very big factor, and I'm very concerned that something like cowhide or horsehide would be too uncomfortable to wear in these hot summers that I have. I haven't been presented any reason to believe that a lambskin leather jacket would be any less fragile than a regular sport coat or a cloth jacket.

[tekors]

Exactly... that's the real point...

[Biker Jacket Jones]

Here's a question that's came up during my jacket shopping. What is "steerhide" leather? How does it differ from something like cow or horse? Where would it rank on the durability/warmth chart?

[Kt. Templar]

Sept 20, 2010 16:38:49 GMT -5 Biker Jacket Jones said:

Here's a question that's came up during my jacket shopping. What is "steerhide" leather? How does it differ from something like cow or horse? Where would it rank on the durability/warmth chart?

A steer is a castrated bull. The leather is said to be smooth. I recently saw an Eastman A2 made out of steer and I thought it was horse!

That probably doesn't help a great deal!

Basically it's bovine hide. Cowhide.

[Biker Jacket Jones]

Thanks. The reason I asked is because I was looking at Aero Leather Clothing for possible jacket alternatives, and saw that they had that as a possible skin type.

[platon]

test

[Ragingblues]

Sept 21, 2010 7:12:34 GMT -5 platon said:

test

What are you testing?

[Kt. Templar]

In theory there is a difference between steer and cowhide. However, I'm sure that sometimes cow is sold as steer just cos it sounds more macho.

One of the high end A2 makers was selling steer as horse and that was not good form!

But it's quite hard to tell some leathers apart. Some leathers if processed the same way can be very similar.

[Biker Jacket Jones]

If steer's just a fancy cowhide, then that's a no-go. As I've probably become semi-famous-but-not-really for saying, cowhide and horsehide are too warm, so I'm going to have to stick with lambskin or something unconventional like kangaroohide, if it becomes available.

The jacket I was looking at was actually this model, the CROPDUSTER. It met most of my basic jacket requirements--zip front, four exterior pockets, and two inside (I asked about those. They said they they weren't standard, but would install them for no charge. I should think so at that price, considering Gibson & Barnes sticks you up for $56 extra). The three leather choices offered to me weren't of my desire, though. As directly quoted, it's "f/q horsehide, heavy steerhide, mid weight horsehides". I'm almost glad, to be honest, as I really didn't want to pay nigh unto $800. But, I'm off topic here, so I'll move on.

As long as I'm at it, how does deerskin rank on the durability/warmth chart? And do you have any experience or knowledge of kangaroohide in these matters?

[Kt. Templar]

Sept 21, 2010 18:30:27 GMT -5 Biker Jacket Jones said:

If steer's just a fancy cowhide, then that's a no-go. As I've probably become semi-famous-but-not-really for saying, cowhide and horsehide are too warm, so I'm going to have to stick with lambskin or something unconventional like kangaroohide, if it becomes available.

The jacket I was looking at was actually this model, the CROPDUSTER. It met most of my basic jacket requirements--zip front, four exterior pockets, and two inside (I asked about those. They said they they weren't standard, but would install them for no charge. I should think so at that price, considering Gibson & Barnes sticks you up for $56 extra). The three leather choices offered to me weren't of my desire, though. As directly quoted, it's "f/q horsehide, heavy steerhide, mid weight horsehides". I'm almost glad, to be honest, as I really didn't want to pay nigh unto $800. But, I'm off topic here, so I'll move on.

As long as I'm at it, how does deerskin rank on the durability/warmth chart? And do you have any experience or knowledge of kangaroohide in these matters?

Pretty cool jacket. I think the top 2 pockets look a bit weird, I'd prefer them if they were horizontal zipped pockets. Then you'd end up with something that looks a lot like the Inception DiCaprio jacket.

BTW the thicker hides can be shaved down to to make them softer and cooler to wear. I have a couple of thin cowhides that are only slightly warmer to wear than lamb.

Roo and deer are pretty exotic. I've heard that both can stretch with use, which may mean the jackets will change shape after a while. Not had experience of either I'm afraid.