I want to like G&B, but....

[dougc]

I know there are a ton of reasons to like G&B's expo, and I honestly would like to get on board with a lambskin one at some point but I keep pointing out to myself that the sewn seam around the outside of the collar and pockets are much more bulky than the screen used jackets. The expo has an almost piping effect at these areas that I can't get past. US Wings does the same thing. It's like the leather is so much thicker that it causes a raised internal seam but I don't think that could be because I see it in the lambskin too which is still somewhat thin. So it's almost like it's done on purpose. The other manfgs don't have the piping around the collars and pockets, look at Wested and Todd and you'll see that they have perfectly flat collar and pocket edges... just like wha we see in the movies. Now, I know the G&B was (supposedly) created using a stuntman jacket from Raiders but has there ever been any mention as to why this feature of their jacket is so different?

Doug C

[Deleted]

There may be some subtle Screen Inaccuraties on a G&B but for all the Screen Accuracies [without having to give a list of mods] it is worth owning one.

Until you own one you just can't appreciate it for what it is.

Cheers,
John

[dougc]

I suppose one doesn't really get an expo for the SA details, but rather for durability primarily. It's just that it's touted as being pretty SA because it's copied from a movie stunt jacket, although the collar and pocket flaps are all wrong and not like the movie ones at all.

Doug C

[New Yorker Jones]

I see what you're saying but to me that's something I overlook. The rest of the jacket is just too nice to worry about the piping. Just my .02

[GCR]

First off, I agree with G-MANN's comment that you can't really appreciate a G&B until you've owned one (or at least seen and held one in person). I never really liked G&B (I preferred Wested) until I did a bit more research and saw some of the great pics of G-MANN's and Indyblues' G&Bs. Once I got my hands on one, my entire outlook changed. It really is a swell jacket.

That being said, I just compared the collar and pocket flaps on my G&B Lambskin and my older Wested Raiders Lambskin. I notice the effect you are referring to on the collar of the G&B, but the pockets don't differ drastically from those on the Wested, and neither of them appear to have the "piping" effect. The seam on the collar is wider and doesn't really seem like piping to me, either, but I could see how it might (when brand new) look something like that in pictures.

As far as the G&B being a copy of a screen-used stunt jacket, well, I honestly have no idea how valid those claims are. I was around the hobby / online community back when the whole project started, and at the time the tale that was fed to the "general public" certainly seemed feasible enough. If you don't trust the many different re-writes available at a certain other "gear" site, then just have a look through the many pages in the archive of the Indyfan forum. A lot of the story behind the development of the G&B is still there, I believe. I will say that if the claims behind the origin of the G&B are actually false, then someone did a pretty damn good job of making up all the design specs from scratch. ;D

I will also add that the jackets currently sold by G&B are not "exact" replicas of the supposed screen-used stunt jacket, as certain changes and modifications (albeit slight ones) have been made in order to better improve the wearability of the jacket as an everyday item.

Anyways, nobody's forcing you to like G&B, Doug! I know there are more than a few folks who own one and love it over here, but this site has always been a great place for fans of all different vendors and products to come and hang out, so no one is going to force you to join the G&B fan club. ;D

Honestly, it may not be for everybody, but I think G&B fills a nice niche for folks who want a very good blend of toughness, accuracy and quality. It just might not satisfy the appetite of the die-hard SA fanatic.

[Ragingblues]

Sept 24, 2008 14:46:09 GMT -5 dougc said:

I suppose one doesn't really get an expo for the SA details, but rather for durability primarily. It's just that it's touted as being pretty SA because it's copied from a movie stunt jacket, although the collar and pocket flaps are all wrong and not like the movie ones at all.

Doug C

Actually, the Expedition is the only jacket that gets the collar and pocket flaps right..... and on every jacket they sell.

Check out the many Raiders jacket pics at this link to see the same "piping" effect your're describing on the movie jackets themselves:

www.kennydrew.com/Indylounge/raidersjacket.htm


Ken

[lump]

Ken, I was just going to point that out. In fact, I remember when I got my Wested (my first Indy jacket). I was struck by the fact that the collar stitching didn't seem very screen accurate to me. I loved it all the same, but I have never had that reaction looking at G&B's, US Wings, or the others that do the wide stitching. Plus, being the opposite of a stitch-nazi, I always thought it strange that I would notice the collar stitching on the Wested.

[Kt. Templar]

The exaggerated raised piping on the G&B and the Wings (in particular) have always reminded me of made in China jackets.

The parts I am talking about are the lower edge of the pocket flaps, the main body of the pocket and around the collar edge. There are supposed to be less puffy flattened double seams at the back of the sleeves the tops of the shoulder, around the armholes, tops of the pockets around the collar etc.

If you look at the Blue Label Wings you can see the fat seams very clearly, those are made in China (Hong Kong) too. Hong Kong is usually shorthand for the factories in Guangzou (Canton) ie mainland China.

[Ragingblues]

Sept 24, 2008 16:27:47 GMT -5 Kt. Templar said:

The exaggerated raised piping on the G&B and the Wings (in particular) have always reminded me of made in China jackets.

The parts I am talking about are the lower edge of the pocket flaps, the main body of the pocket and around the collar edge. There are supposed to be less puffy flattened double seams at the back of the sleeves the tops of the shoulder, around the armholes, tops of the pockets around the collar etc.

If you look at the Blue Label Wings you can see the fat seams very clearly, those are made in China (Hong Kong) too. Hong Kong is usually shorthand for the factories in Guangzou (Canton) ie mainland China.

I'm sorry, but I own a G&B and see nothing in common with a U.S. Wings jacket design. I also don't see anything different on the G&B in the areas mentioned than those on the screen used Raiders jackets. My two Wested jackets have the same look described here, in those areas as well.






Can someone find screen caps of jackets with less seam width? I would have no doubt that would be the case. Keeping in mind that jackets in Raiders varied in the details, due to the rapid nature of their construction.... I would say that you can only make a jacket accurate to the one it was modeled after in certain scenes. The same goes with hats as well.


Ken

[dougc]

GCR:

Anyways, nobody's forcing you to like G&B, Doug!

..umm...what? when did I say..nevermind.

Ken, believe me I've looked at all the picture that are available, more times than I care to admit really . However, I disagree that the expo is the only one being made correctly, to me I definately see a piping effect around the collar. The collar also seems a bit small or short too, now that I really study the pictures. Look at this collar, it doesn't scream Raiders to me:




Now compare it to the one it's supposed to be replicating, which appears to have a flatter edge (JMHO):




As for the pocket piping, well after taking a little time to look through dozens of pictures, I've decided that it may not be as bad as the image in my head of the expo (maybe I was confusing it with the Wings a bit there). There is heavy piping but it's more prominant at the pocket flap attchment at the top. See this pic:





Compared to this:




Not trying to knock the expo for the sake of it, I know and believe it's one of the better built jackets.

Doug C

[Ragingblues]

When I want to see what a G&B looks like, I just look at my own....


And the pictures I posted above state my case for me. You are also using a photo of someone's goatskin jacket, which being made of a thicker hide... would change things when compared to a lambskin made by someone else.


Ken

[GCR]

Thanks for that link, Ken! Those are some good comparison pics.

Two things came to my mind when looking at those pics of the Raiders jacket on screen.

1) There is obviously more than one jacket being worn in those pics.

2) That piping effect does seem to appear on some of the actual screen-used jackets

So, with those to points in mind, I guess the G&B does have this one base covered (and many others, too, of course. ). Despite this, even the most SA G&B is still not accurate to every jacket seen on screen. But then again, NO one single jacket is.

-GCR

[GCR]

Doug, that collar comparison doesn't really put things into very good perspective since the jacket Leonard is wearing is folded out and almost flat, where the pic of the G&B is folded normally.

Anyways, nobody's forcing you to like G&B, Doug!

..umm...what? when did I say..nevermind.

That was meant as a joke, by the way (hence the emoticon...)

-GCR

[dougc]

When I want to see what a G&B looks like, I just look at my own....

But then again, you may not be the only one reading this and some may not have one.

Doug C

[Kt. Templar]

This is the effect I'm talking about pocket wise.

There should be a slightly thicker seam at the top of the pocket all the rest should be minimal. Wested does it most of the time, even Nowak does. US Wings fails miserably.









I haven't a G&B to compare. I do find the pics usually posted by Rundquist tend to show really heavily piped and small looking collars.

[GCR]

Here are a few pics of my G&B when it was brand new, next to my Wested Lambskin which I got in late 2003.

The collar on the G&B does look small, when it's brand new, but as the leather relaxes with age and wear, it tends to lay flat and look more like the Raiders collar. The Wested is already relaxed and lays correctly because it is a older.



That being said, I measured the collars on my two jackets and found that the G&B is slightly shorter. Of course, I have no idea whether the specs from the Wested are correct or not, and I'm not about to assume anything considering the many changes the Wested pattern has undergone over the years, so let's just say that the width difference isn't drastic either way.

As far as the pocket goes, here's another pic of my two jackets.



I'm not seeing the "piping" effect, here.

[Deleted]

Here's the pocket my my Expedition.



Cheers,
John

[Kt. Templar]

OK, I take it back about G&B pockets. I still think their collars look a bit wrong. JMO.

[Ragingblues]

Yeah, there is truly no way to buy one hat or jacket in this hobby and have it match every scene of one of the movies, since the items worn varied themselves.

Beyond that, it's all just opinion and a matter of taste anyway.


Ken

[dougc]

True guys, it's all just opinion... and of course we tend to base our opinion on what we perceive if we haven't actually handled one. Based on all the pictures I've seen of them I've just never thought the collar looked right on the expo and still don't think it matches the film used ones to me it's obviously (to me) short and with bulky looking piping. With that said, I still may end up with one, one day.. BTW, why the lack of a box attachment for the straps on the back panel, and a seam on the underside of the collar at the back?

Doug C

[Deleted]

I'm not sure what you mean about the box. There is one on mine just no X inside of it.

Cheers,
John

[dougc]

G-mann thanks for the close up pic, never seen it that tight before and now I can see how it's designed. I always just saw the sewn verticle rectangular bars at each side. Just one thing though, do they claim that to be accurate to the stunt jacket, because again I've never seen it that way in any screen caps or pics from raiders.

Doug C

[Deleted]

I can't say for sure but my OLD Expedition that I bought from MK that goes back to the begining is sewn the same way.






Cheers,
John

[GCR]

If my memory serves me right, (and it doesn't always) I believe G&B may have taken a liberty here and there with the stitching on certain parts of the jacket, in an effort to increase durability and wearability of the jacket. As has been said, it is not a "stitch for stitch" reproduction of the screen-used stunt jacket, but an extremely close replica *slightly* modified for regular use. That's all it ever has been, as from what I have seen of the G&B's posted over the years, the design of a jacket bought 4 or 5 years ago is nearly identical to a new one purchased today.

The issues with the collar some people refer to are something I can totally understand, and to be honest, I also was surprised at how different the collar seemed to be (compared to my Wested) when I first got my G&B. However, I think 90% of what some folks see in the G&B collar is simply a result of how new the jacket is. The collar of my G&B was much stiffer than the collar on either of my Westeds when new, but now that the jacket is over a year old and has been treated with some light water-based distressing, the collar is no longer stiff and lays correctly. The "piping" effect of the wide seam stitches on the collar is also something that just may not sit right with some folks, but looking at pics, there are more than a few scenes where the Raiders jacket(s) appear to have a similar seam around the collar. And again, now that the jacket has aged a bit, and the leather has developed a lot of character (especially around the seams) the "piping" effect is much less obvious, at least on my jacket. If I get a chance in the next couple of days, I'll snap a few pics.

I think one thing people should be aware of is that a G&B may have a highly accurate design right out of the box, preventing you from having to order a custom jacket with a long list of mods, BUT, like just about any other type of gear, it needs some time in order for it to look "right". Just like a brand new pair of Aldens need some artificial distressing work or a few years of regular wear to look like the boots Indy wore.

[COWBOY]

Well I have had:

2-Wings
2-Westeds
1-G&B

The G&B is my favorite period. I have said it many times here and I will save it again. The expo is the toughest built jacket out there. My pockets and seems have held up beautiful, but I can not say the same about my Westeds and you all know the example I am talking about. I purchased a new CS in Nova from Wested the summer and while I do like the jacket (far better construction than the LC) the pockets are way to small (might as well not even use them) and the corners are starting to pop

All that to say that yes, some might be super duper SA, but I am a man who needs a man's jacket.