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Post by GCR on Jul 30, 2008 21:05:12 GMT -5
Those are some awesome pieces you've picked up, Mechanic! I've always liked the Keppler holster, and the holster I have (from Western Stage Props) is essentially identical as far as design goes (they copied one of Lee's I'm told). I really like the "out of the box" color of Lee's holster MUCH better though. My WSP holster was really a weird reddish-orange color when I first got it, and it's taken me years to get the distressing and re-coloring just right. The gunbelt looks like a winner, too!  It had a very rugged, high-quality look to it. Congrats on the new gear!  |
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Post by Marc on Jul 31, 2008 8:48:39 GMT -5
Sorry to piss around here, but I've just read that fairy tale of Lee's holster being the most SA holster humanly possible due to it being based on a screen used one, that it's starting to bother me.
Of course I cannot comment on Lee having access to a screen used holster but the fact that his holster is just OFF remains. Believe it or not, but I have nothing but high respect towards Lee and he's done very, very much for us fans. With that said, just to CLAIM that something is s.a. just seems un-fair IMO. It jumps right out on me and I just don't understand how knowlegdable people (I mean, we're EXPERTS on this stuff goddammit) can seriously call this holster accurate. If someone could PLEASE post a screen grap of Raiders in which you can see a glossy holster with such deep groves and the rounded pattern, then I'd be happy to shut up. However right now I just see NO evidence for the claims being made here.
Same with the gunbelt - it looks nothing like the gunbelts did I see on my screen, nor does the bagstrap or the buckle.
This is NOT a pun towards Lee by any means. It's just... to even CONSIDER this s.a. within a group that is discussing wether the brim on a hat should be half a mm more or less in order to be s.a. kinda hits me. It's "close enough" - no more, no less. To lotta people that's fine, but then please call it so in opposite to "as SA as it gets".
Regards,
Marc
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Post by Ragingblues on Jul 31, 2008 10:16:35 GMT -5
I'm betting that if you follow the screen accurate claims to their source, you'll find someone who is either a long time friend of Lee and/or someone who will benefit from increased sales of his items.
Ken
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Post by Kaplan on Jul 31, 2008 10:58:57 GMT -5
Mechanic, that's good looking gear, man. It's refreshing to see some Keppler stuff around. I wasn't aware that Lee Keppler claimed that any of his items were SA. They certainly have some differences from what I see on screen. If he had the chance to examine a screen used holster, he must have only been allowed to view it from standing very very far away. ;D |
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Post by indianadirk on Jul 31, 2008 11:03:56 GMT -5
Though copied of screen used or not his is still the best looking holster. Eventhough its shiny or not SA color the pattern is just perfect. Todds is a close second.
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Post by GCR on Jul 31, 2008 12:22:15 GMT -5
I'm all for dispensing with the myths, legends and fabricated history that have swirled around this hobby for years and years, but in this particular case, do we have any solid proof that Lee's holster is NOT a copy of the screen-used piece? I know many folks have been combing through Raiders, making HD screencaps over the last year or so, but personally, I've never seen a very highly detailed pic of the Raiders holster, at least not one that shows me every last stitch and conclusively prooves one design more "accurate" than others. I'm not taking sides here, as I highly respect Marc and Lee both, but I think the REAL problem here is the misuse of a term that has (for the most part) been a curse on this hobby since it was first coined: SCREEN-ACCURATE Lee's holster may be a stitch for stitch reproduction of the holster used in Raiders, but if the screen-caps make it look slightly different, then technically, it's not totally screen-accurate (and I'm not saying it is or it isn't, mind you), because it doesn't fit with the way the holster looked on screen for that small portion of the film. I don't see any reason to doubt that Lee's holster IS a copy of the original Raiders design, and that he was able to copy it from the original patterns (he did manage to gain access to many other pieces from Raiders, including one or both of the S&W's used, so it's not unlikely). If somebody is able to locate the original holster now and point out the major design differences, then I'd be the first to say I was wrong. Very high quality screencaps could work, too, but even the best screencaps are no substitute for the real thing. Again, I'm not trying to brew a nice pot of trouble here. Marc, you know I have nothing but GREAT respect for you, my friend, but I think it's kinda of a raw situation when a guy gets himself some new gear, happily shares some pics of his gear with fellow enthusiasts and just because of one *possibly* misused term, he gets a nice long paragraph telling him his holster isn't what he thinks it is. Kinda stinks for him, doesn't it?  |
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Post by Marc on Jul 31, 2008 13:27:34 GMT -5
I'm TRULY sorry, if I offended The Mechanic with my statement. That was ABSOLUTELY not my intention. If I did so, please let me apology.
I didn't want to tout my own horn (which in this case would be Kim's anyway). Actually I didn't want to make this a vendor a) vs. vendor b) discussion at all. Please understand that I'm first of all a FAN myself and as such I act like one from time to time. It's not politicly correct - being a vendor - to say anything negative about other vendors products. However I don't want to add a fake discount in here, where I can be a fan and keep my Marc account for the political correctness that is expected from a vendor.
Sorry again. If anyone has a suggestion how I can behave like every one else without leaving the impression of trashing a fellow member, by all means, please let me know.
Thanks,
Marc
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Post by GCR on Jul 31, 2008 14:04:08 GMT -5
Marc, I certainly hope you don't think I was trying to tell you how to act, after all it's none of my business...I don't run this place, I just post here.  I have nothing but respect for you, your eye for detail and your opinions. I know you and Kim both worked hard on your version of the Raiders holster, and I think the end result looks great. I also know you have strong opinions when it comes to a lot of the small details on certain pieces of gear, and that your status as a vendor puts you in a tough spot to express those opinions honestly without getting flak for it from others who don't agree with you. My main point was simply that "SA" is a very dangerous term to use. I honestly have reached a point where I don't think such a thing as complete "screen-accuracy" really exists. No matter how something looks on screen, it's bound to look somewhat different under normal lighting, in 3 dimensions in real life. Plus, no matter how something looks on screen, different people will always see it a bit differently. Some folks look at the Raiders hat and see a really, really tall crown. Some don't. Some see slight taper, others see a mushrooming crown with reverse taper. Some see a brown clipper hat, some see a gray one...and they're all looking at the same screen-caps, so who's right and who's wrong?  Maybe it's a bit more cut and dry with the holster issue, I honestly don't know. Like I said, I haven't seen all that many clear screen-caps of the Raiders holster to consider myself remotely knowledgeable about it one way or the other. Maybe the Keppler IS off in certain places, who knows? It's obvious that it needs a good deal of distressing to look the part, but I see no obvious flaws in the overall design. Then again I'm definitely no expert. |
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Post by indianadirk on Jul 31, 2008 14:48:02 GMT -5
SA is a Dangerous term, because it is different for everyone,
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Post by Ragingblues on Jul 31, 2008 15:05:31 GMT -5
SA is a Dangerous term, because it is different for everyone, I agree that many people see things differently. There are many absolutes about this stuff that some people will just never accept, and such is life. The real problem is, since they multiple items instead of just one of a particular thing, screen accurate will depend on which of the items you're matching from a certain scene (or in some cases... a few frames). Perhaps people should start using terms like " More Accurate", or " ACAP - As Close As Possible". I doubt that's likely to happen any time soon. Ken |
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Post by themechanic on Jul 31, 2008 17:09:51 GMT -5
I shouldn't have used the term SA, I was happy I got the holster and very quickly typed up my review and that's just what popped into my head.
I don't like the term either, screen accurate to what? What screen? What monitor? What frame of film? What photograph? Which prop?
I'll try to be more specific in the future in regards to my descriptions.
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Post by Kaplan on Jul 31, 2008 23:04:23 GMT -5
I shouldn't have used the term SA, I was happy I got the holster and very quickly typed up my review and that's just what popped into my head. I don't like the term either, screen accurate to what? What screen? What monitor? What frame of film? What photograph? Which prop? I'll try to be more specific in the future in regards to my descriptions. Mechanic, your gear looks good. And it's very Mechanaccurate (MA). My gear is Andyaccurate. That means that my Mk VII bag is full of guns, scotch, and a sympathetic monkey.  |
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Post by themechanic on Aug 1, 2008 5:40:50 GMT -5
Mechanaccurate, that's great. Which means inside my holster is a 1911  |
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greg
Gear Hauler
Posts: 13
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Post by greg on Feb 17, 2009 5:41:54 GMT -5
Has anybody had any luck contacting Lee in the past two months. I have tried his email address and his phone number with no success. I had ordered a belt and holster from him last year and have not received them despite being told they would be sent.
Greg
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greg
Gear Hauler
Posts: 13
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Post by greg on Feb 25, 2009 5:15:18 GMT -5
Just got a call from Lee last night. He reports to be working on my gear right now. Will post pics upon receipt.
Greg
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