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Post by Marc on Jan 9, 2008 6:22:37 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2008 10:19:22 GMT -5
Marc, You could try contacting Ebay's customer service via email. I have found that in most cases Ebay really does not give a crap about much as long as they get thier cut of the money. It's sad and unfair but true. I used to sell a lot on ebay but thier fees keep rising and thier unwillingness to help those that are getting screwed have really put me off. Good luck with this and remember "No good deed goes unpunished."  Cheers, John |
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Post by Stefana Jones on Jan 9, 2008 10:27:35 GMT -5
Oh rats !!!!!!! I don't know exactly where at ebay you could file a complaint about this... I guess you could send the seller a message for starters...see what happens. Maybe he would make his diaries without your invented text added ? Good luck.  |
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Post by pitfallharry on Jan 9, 2008 10:46:20 GMT -5
I can understand you being upset Marc. I'm sure you spent quite a bit of your spare time putting all of that togther.  The problem is.......even IF you do file a complaint what is Ebay or anyone going to do about it? You freely distrupted those pages for the fans to use. This guy just took those and put a grail diary together and sell it. He didn't actually steal them for you. Other than NOT giving those out for free like that I don't know how else you could have protected yourself from something like this happening. With the new movie coming out and Lucas's lawyers crawling all over the web I'm a little shocked any of these props are still being allowed to be sold. I mean they've all got to be copyrighted and trademarked due to their appearance in the films, don't they?  Like John said......"No good deed goes unpunished". For what it's worth I think what you do for the folks around here with all the stuff you offer is truly amazing and it's crap that people like this take advantage of that. |
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Post by Stefana Jones on Jan 9, 2008 11:48:39 GMT -5
Well, as Harry says, many Indy prop replicas are sold without (I'm sure) Lucasfilm's approval, including grail diaries with or without your invented text added. So both you and Lucasfilm are being ripped-off ! And some of us at the lounge, bought such stuff...golden idol, staff of Ra, Ark kits ans so on... I have bought "unliscenced" Indy props on ebay myself : idol, headpiece (staff of Ra) and recently my "low quality" grial diary.  indylounge.proboards105.com/index.cgi?board=props&action=display&thread=1199335765 It's all a question of supply and demand I guess, as long as there are fans (like myself) willing to pay for such replicas, they will be a market for it...on ebay or elsewhere. |
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Post by Marc on Jan 9, 2008 12:21:27 GMT -5
I have un-liscende stuff myself. And I LIKE fanwork! - That's not the point. The point is that this guy is making money with something I put a lot of work into. And I DIDN'T do it in order to make money, but for fellow fans as an inspiration.
I see a lot of fanmade lightsabers, HALO guns and heck knows what on therpf.com. However these things are made because people are either unhappy with what's out there, or think they can do it better. I haven't seen anyone just recasting a MR lightsaber and selling it just to make money. That's quite a difference IMHO.
I have contacted the seller and offered to either get in touch with me, or I'll get in touch with Lfm. He got in touch with me. Let's see how it works out.
Regards,
Marc
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Post by pitfallharry on Jan 9, 2008 12:32:09 GMT -5
The point I was trying to make was that you put those pages out there for free. This guy took them and put them together and made a grail diary and is selling it. How has he done anything illegal? Yes, you didn't put your hard work into them so someone could turn around and profit off of it but at the same time didn't it ever cross your mind someone might do this?
You really don't have any legal ground to stand on and the only thing you can really force the guy to do is give you credit for the work on those pages. He can still sell it if he wants to. You really don't have a say in the matter as far as him selling it because you don't own the original rights to those images....Lucas does.
I don't agree with what the man did and if the guy is willing to talk to you about it then that's cool. Maybe just threw chatting back and forth the situation can be resolved without it getting nasty or something.
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Post by GCR on Jan 9, 2008 12:53:29 GMT -5
I would agree with you here if we were talking about something that appeared on the actual prop, but, unless I'm mistaken, the text in question was "invented" diary content that Marc created himself, which is more in line with Indy fan fiction, if you think about it. Granted, without a copyright, it's still hard to establish any "legal" right, but these were Marc's original creations, inspired by a Lucasfilm prop (as well as the Last Crusade movie and the Indy character himself, I'm sure), not just a copy of a prop. It would be somewhat like someone profiting by selling one of your PS pictures without your consent. You don't own the rights to the character you portray, but the image is still your original creation, even if it is posted online for all to see, free of charge.
-GCR
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Post by pitfallharry on Jan 9, 2008 13:07:42 GMT -5
That may or may not be the case.....I know I'd have a lot more ground to stand on legally since it was my own image that was being used even though I'm dressed as a character that someone else owns. I think that goes along the lines of visual consent.....the same thing the toy companies need to get from the actors before they can use their likeness for the figures. I wasn't aware that Marc added new content to what was already written on those grail pages....or created totally new pages to go along with it. I was under the impression he went back and painfully re-did what was seen in the original prop. I don't own a grail diary so I don't know what's supposed to be in them and what isn't...... I'm not arguing with anyone that what this guy did was lousy, that's a given. I'm just saying other than the guy giving him credit for the pages I don't think there's anything else he can do. None of it can be taken to a court because then everyone would be in trouble........ It sounds from the last post the guy is willing to talk to Marc so maybe some kind of an agreement can be reached. |
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Post by Marc on Jan 9, 2008 13:57:38 GMT -5
What I did is the following: I sorted the known pages (Lucasfilm) in a way so they would match an invented story (mine). For that, I also used the pages from the computer game (Lucasfilm). Once I was done with that I spent countless hours writing, doing historic researches to make sure everything would fit, invented new pages and drawings (and took some from the same books that the original prop makers used - which I extra bought from my money) while trying to get the text from the computer game diary, the movie prop text, the movie time line and the Indy time line to still fit.
I thought that people who had the money could buy one from Magnoli as his replica is second to none and it's only fair that he's making money on it (or rather did). And those who couldn't afford it and didn't want to spend so much time or wouldn't be able to do so, could still make their own, using my text as a guideline. It was meant to be an open source non profit project from a fellow fan for other fellow fans.
Here one decides to use an open source project and make money on other peoples hard work. And that is NOT ok IMHO.
Regards,
Marc
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Post by GCR on Jan 9, 2008 16:54:50 GMT -5
So this was essentially a prop-replica, supplemented with original material that was created by Marc, and offered to fellow fans for free. Now that I understand what exactly the diary contained, it all makes a bit more sense to me. I don't see anything wrong with Marc wanting to keep someone else from earning profits on something he worked hard on and was giving away to other fans for nothing. Sure, Marc might not have any "legal ground" to stand on, in regard to theft of original material or copyright infringement, but that's not important anyway. Marc's not trying to get a share of the profits, he's trying to prevent anyone from profiting at all. Contacting Lucasfilm is probably the smartest move. Marc's got nothing to lose, as he wasn't selling these to begin with. Lucasfilm doesn't care if you replicate Indy props for your own personal enjoyment. They don't even care if you make more than one to give to other fans, as long as you're not PROFITING by it. That's where the trouble lies for our diary text thief!  I hope for his sake he's able to work things out with Marc and take this rip-off diary off the market. |
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Post by IndyBlues on Jan 9, 2008 17:41:44 GMT -5
I'm on Marcs side, 200%. I don't care who the other guy is, he knows it's wrong. PERIOD. What sucks, is people posting about what rights this guy has, and how he's not really doing anything wrong,yadda yadda , ....on a forum where said sphincter probably visits.
Nothing like handing your enemy ammo.
Mike
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Post by pitfallharry on Jan 9, 2008 18:11:15 GMT -5
Mike, did I ever say anything about not being on Marc's side? No. Did I ever say I agreed with what the guy did? No. The ONLY reason I brought any of that up is because I'd seriously like to know what anyone could do in a situation like this? That's it. Marc did the work, put his pages out there for everyone to use and this guy got them, put the diary together and decided sell it on Ebay. You can contact the guy but how can you legally stop him from selling it, you can't......so basically unless this guy and Marc come to some kind of an arrangement Marc gets the shaft and this guy gets away with it. If you alert Lucasfilm about this won't that cause them to start looking at the whole Indy prop market....if they aren't already? I'm talking about the stuff that's being sold..... Yes, I totally agree the guy shouldn't get away with this but it sounds like this could also open up a whole can of worms too..... This whole making and selling props from the films has always seemed like a murky legal area to me. I'd also like to know how anyone can prevent something like this happening down the road in the future? I just hope the situation is resolved quickly and peacefully.... |
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Post by IndyBlues on Jan 9, 2008 18:34:53 GMT -5
I just hope the situation is resolved quickly and peacefully.... Couldn't agree more. Mike |
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Post by Stefana Jones on Jan 9, 2008 23:16:00 GMT -5
I am well aware of that, and I completely understand how you must feel . I don't agree with what the gut is doing with your text either, I just wanted to point out that there is a market for "unliscenced" or "un-authorised" props out there. Great,  I hope things will work out O.K. for you. |
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Post by corellia on Jan 10, 2008 8:14:50 GMT -5
I'm not going to interfere in the discussion here, since I only skipped over the posts in a hurry, here's just a little side note:
Marc, if your contact with the seller fails, of if he's refusing to pull back the item, you can report illegal auctions to ebay. the link to do so is at the very bottom of the auction page, where it says "Other Options" -> there's a "Report Item" link. you can then select a reason for reporting it, like violation of copyrights (which I think happened here if he is selling something you wrote without your ok) - ebay usually works pretty fast on reports like that.
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Post by pitfallharry on Jan 10, 2008 8:50:01 GMT -5
I just wanted to throw this out there really quick since were on the subject of having things taken and used without permission and then being sold.... I know there are quite a few members here who are artists, like Prof Wex. I would suggest placing a watermark on any original artwork that is posted from this point forward. I know some of the areas here can only be viewed by "members only" but that still doesn't prevent someone from signing up, seeing the persons work, downloading it and then selling it off as their own. I know of at least one site besides something like Ebay where someone could pawn off artwork that isn't their own and sell it for a profit. Just a little food for thought.......I'd hate to see theft of any kind become some kind of new trend around these boards..... |
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Post by Marc on Jan 10, 2008 15:35:12 GMT -5
Thank you very much for all your support Gentlemen and Julia / the lady It's highly appreciated by this writer!!! The seller seems to be willing to "work something out" with me and I'll let the past be past and try to be as open minded as possible. I'll keep you updated. Thanks again, Marc |
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Post by Stefana Jones on Jan 10, 2008 23:14:42 GMT -5
Great news ! |
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