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Post by pagey on Jul 1, 2006 12:30:15 GMT -5
Here's my latest indy whip - natural tan 9ft. I actually made this one for myself so that I've got one to show people when i tell them that I make whips. It's really a little too light for an Indy whip, as the hide was thinner than I would normally use. On the plus side, it makes for a fast action! It's kind of a target/Indy. Anyway, here are the pics (including my 10ft Strain for comparison). As I'm having trouble getting the heavier hides, this might be last offering for a while (except yours John - I'll get that one made for sure )
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Post by breinederindy on Jul 1, 2006 13:06:28 GMT -5
WOW! Can't wait to see it tomorrow! You really get better by each whip
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Post by jweaver on Jul 1, 2006 14:04:30 GMT -5
Wow, that is a great looking whip! You are an artist my friend.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2006 13:36:35 GMT -5
You are an artist my friend. I too have to agree with this comment. That truly is a beatiful whip!
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Post by Ragingblues on Jul 2, 2006 13:50:04 GMT -5
Beautiful whip Pagey... absolutely beautiful! Your arms must be aching from wrapping that thing so tight too! Nice job, Ken
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Post by pitfallharry on Jul 2, 2006 14:17:26 GMT -5
That is a nice looking whip. Why is it tough to get heavier hides right now?
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Post by pagey on Jul 2, 2006 14:46:38 GMT -5
Thanks for the kind words folks. Yes my arms (and especially my hands!!) are aching - but not enough to stop me from starting an 8 footer today I'm only having trouble getting heavier hides because of my supplier - I basically have to reply on whatever he gets in. There has been a general difficulty in getting large enough hides - this is still the result of the drough a few years ago that reduced the numbers of kangaroos. I need to find a new supplier though, as it's almost cost prohibitive the way I've been working till now.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2006 15:16:46 GMT -5
Wow that is a beauty Excellent work, I'd like to get my hands on that Cheers, G-MANN
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Post by Alabama Jones on Jul 2, 2006 15:22:32 GMT -5
Wow! Thats a gorgeous piece of work. If only I hadn't just laid down an arm and a leg for a DM. SoPagey, are you still making the handle to old specs (like this one)? What do you think of Mr Morgan's revision? By the way, even though I was assured DM made my whip, I was told he had "help" with the braiding. But I don't think thats anything new or unusual. EDIT: seeing that Strain makes me want mine back! and not because I like it any better, I just want em both.
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Post by pagey on Jul 2, 2006 15:36:08 GMT -5
Alabama, be glad Morgan had some help! Mine was made totally by the man and it was very poor. The laces weren't even skived and the braiding was desperately loose. I don't know why he doesn't call it a day. He's done magnificent work and will always be the master, and I will always have the greatest respect for him - but hs age does seem to have caught up with him.
As for the handle, I generally make it that way. All that Morgan does is to reduce the diamond plait secion of braiding and place the keeper knot further back. The inner workings and the handle foundation are still the same.
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JEEP
Treasure Seeker
Prof. Henry Jones Jr. Equipment Afficianado
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Post by JEEP on Jul 2, 2006 15:37:17 GMT -5
That is a beautiful whip! You may recieve an order from me within a couple of months /Jakob
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Post by indianatone on Jul 2, 2006 15:51:09 GMT -5
Yep, that is an absolute beaut', Pagey! I have to come up with more money somewhere. Then again, the Mrs. never knows what to get me for Christmas, so.........hmm....Maybe that's when I'll strike! You, uh.....you want to donate one 'on loan' for an upcoming Summit?
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Post by Alabama Jones on Jul 2, 2006 23:22:29 GMT -5
Alabama, be glad Morgan had some help! Mine was made totally by the man and it was very poor. The laces weren't even skived and the braiding was desperately loose. I don't know why he doesn't call it a day. He's done magnificent work and will always be the master, and I will always have the greatest respect for him - but hs age does seem to have caught up with him. I'd heard this also, so yeah, guess I'm lucky. An expert may be able to point out defects and such, but as long as it works for me (which it does ) and it holds up, I'm happy. I just didn't want to wake up one morning and learn it was too late to obtain a whip made by "the master". Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression his whips were never the tightest, cleanest ones to begin with, when compared to others' (others being most of the ones he, himself, trained/influenced). Ah, thanks. As a whipmaker, why do you suppose he made this change and is so insistant upon it?
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Post by pagey on Jul 2, 2006 23:42:16 GMT -5
You are right, Morgan's whips have never been braided as tightly as a Strain - and wide heavy weight strands have always been a feature. But - there is a limit! My last Morgan had strands that were so wide they no longer fit the core and as a result I could feel the leather twist on the handle when I used the whip. Brand new, I could look under the laces they were so loose. And the thong had terrible bumps due to places where neighbouring strands were sometimes twice or half as wide as eachother. You have to rmember that any whip will stratch and loosen up overtime and use - and a whip that is loose to begin with will just get worse. As for Morgan's revisions of the handle - he told me it was to reduce stress on the keeper knot, which used to be directly over the end of the metal spike, where the transition from solid to flexible occurs. Over the years he's moved it further back. Most whipmakers today, when they make a longer looking handle, still don't place the knot as far forward as on the early Morgans. My whips are made so that various layers are staggered in their positioning and the keeper knot is a couple of cm from the end of the spike.
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Post by Marc on Jul 3, 2006 2:24:48 GMT -5
What have I done to you, to deserve that you tease me like this, when I need a new exhaust pipe for my car? That whip looks from what I can tell. Awesome work Nick! Seems like it takes a fan(atic) to make what fan(atic)s want... So - if you allow the question - could you make the whip as thin as that with a thicker hide? HIGH regards, Marc
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Post by pagey on Jul 3, 2006 6:51:30 GMT -5
Marc, why would you want the whip this thin with a thicker hide? It can be done but it would mean leaving out a bolster or two. If you want a whip that's thin it's best to use the lighter weight hides - like most Australian style whips. It was morgan who decided on heavyweight hides when he designed what became the Indy whip- and that has become the standard procedure for that kind of whip. Australian style whips generally use lighter hides for finer braiding. I can (and usually do) make whips slimmer than the modern morgan and more like the classic morgans using heavy hides. BUt the whip pictures above is slimmer than that which is why i say it's really too light to be considered an Indy whip. It's more of an australian target whip with Indy styling
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Post by Marc on Jul 3, 2006 7:21:14 GMT -5
That's what I wanted to know! For me - personally - it first of all has to be as tough as nails. I can't afford buying "costume pieces" that look great, but don't hold up to the abuse (or in other words: no lamb hide jacket for me - sorry John). And since - in this case - that would make it ever more screen accurate, I'd say, that's the way to go for me.
Even if the Raiders bullwhips would have been made of calf hide, I'd still want a roohide bullwhip, since it's more durable. Now, if you say, that there's no way in "where-the-devil-lives" that I could "kill" a whip - even if made from a slightly thinner hide, but that it would perform much better and I'd get better result from working with that, heck, let me know! I'm not the expert on the subject. I "just" want it to last a looooooooong time, perform really well and still be as screen accurate as humanly possible...
Regards,
Marc
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Post by pagey on Jul 3, 2006 8:26:06 GMT -5
I "just" want it to last a looooooooong time, perform really well and still be as screen accurate as humanly possible... Hey Marc, you just summed up my whole Indy gear quest!
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Post by Marc on Jul 3, 2006 8:50:09 GMT -5
Well, that makes two of us then Now, what do you recommend in terms of durability vs. hide thickness vs. performance?Oh, and while I'm at it, why a 9' and not 10'? (yeah, I know that both 8' and 10' was used and 9' is faster than 10' foot, but still has a wider "hit range" than a 8' - but is there more to it?) And what is better on your whips than on a Strain? (some might call me nuts, but I'm dead serious: I think that only a fan will take care of some of the details another vendor couldn't care less for). So please, go ahead and convince me, that there can only be one whip that would please my picky needs! Thanks, Marc
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Post by pagey on Jul 3, 2006 8:52:36 GMT -5
Indy Breineder took this pic of my new whip in good company! It shows the different sizes of the whips (if you look closely).That's my Strain in the middle and his Stenhouse on the right. The Stenhouse is the heaviest Indy whip I've ever come across, My Strain is slimmer, based on an 80s Morgan, and my whip is slimmer again. Here's another, with the Strain and Stenhouse switched.
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Post by pagey on Jul 3, 2006 9:03:19 GMT -5
Well, that makes two of us then Now, what do you recommend in terms of durability vs. hide thickness vs. performance?Oh, and while I'm at it, why a 9' and not 10'? (yeah, I know that both 8' and 10' was used and 9' is faster than 10' foot, but still has a wider "hit range" than a 8' - but is there more to it?) And what is better on your whips than on a Strain? (some might call me nuts, but I'm dead serious: I think that only a fan will take care of some of the details another vendor couldn't care less for). So please, go ahead and convince me, that there can only be one whip that would please my picky needs! Thanks, Marc Ooh tough questions - and I'm not sure I can give you the answers you're looking for. You might want to put that first question to Joe Strian, David Morgan or Adam Winrich - all of whom have a lot more experience than I do in both cracking and whipmaking. Personally, I believe that a heavy hide is going to more durable but that tight neat braiding is of most importance. MOrgan cuts very wide strands to be more durable - but they are terrible dirt collectors. It is almost impossible to clean one of his whips, and yet it is known that dirt getting into the braiding will damage the whip. Whip length is purely personal preference. You can't say a certain length is "screen accurate" or not. In the book it is said he carries a 10ft whip. What's better on my whips than on a Joe Strain??? Well, first let me point out that Joe Strain won't be losing sleep because of me just yet! Seriously, I think he is the best (Indy) whipmaker there is and I hope to get as good some day. That said, I have an eye for detail and I think I can replicate the Raiders look fairly well while making a decent whip- at least that's my goal. I'm certainly not producing "costume"pieces.
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Post by Marc on Jul 3, 2006 9:18:39 GMT -5
Lookin' good, but it doesn't answer my questions Regards, Marc
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2006 10:29:51 GMT -5
Pagey,
I have a question. Once a whip has been completed, can you go back and unbraid and then tighten up the loose plaits or is that impossible?
Cheers, G-MANN
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Post by pagey on Jul 3, 2006 12:06:23 GMT -5
You could possibly do that to an extent but it gets complicated because when strands are dropped they also get tapered down to fit the core. Trying to rebraid more than the last section would therefore be quite a task. Why do you ask?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2006 12:55:02 GMT -5
I only wondered because of many folks mentioning how loosely braided the Newer Morgans were. I thought maybe they could be tigtened up thus saving a poorly made whip. It is something I would never even consider doing myself. Much like reblocking a Fedora.
Cheers, G-MANN
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