So Confused.....

[GlockJutsu]

Ok, I need some advice/help with the colors of the Wested jackets and some general tips about this whole Indy jacket thing...

(it's turned out to be quite an ordeal lol)

First, in regards to the Wested jackets..pricewise, they seem to be a good fit, even with shipping, as compared to USWings and others I've looked at. I've read some of your responses on the custom fitted ones, but as far as the "off the shelf" models, a jacket is probably a jacket...but, what is up with the colors???

Ford's jacket in the movies appears to be more of a darker brown than the "authentic lamb" of Wested's ROLA jacket. (set lighting, whatever). I like a darker color jacket anyway, I think they just look better on me. So, when I emailed Wested to ask about this, Gemma replied that the jacket pictured on the main page of the Raiders Jacket site is the "authentic lamb" color....

www.ekmpowershop4.com/ekmps/shops/westedcom/raiders-jacket-3-p.asp

But...but...this color is doesn't appear the same to me as the "authentic lamb" color of the ROLA jackets. This color looks more like a dark brown lamb.

Anyone have any clue which color is which?

Thanks for all of your help.

"It's not the years, it's the mileage."

[IndyBlues]

First off, welcome to the fold. Glad to have you with us.
Now, as far as the picture, I would agree that that is in fact Dark Brown Lamb. Unless they took the pic in a dimly lit room with no flash, there is no way that is Authentic Brown.
A.B. is more of a milk chocolate color, when you see it in person. If you are not so concerned about super screen accuracy, and all that, then dark brown looks fantastic. It also looks more like what 90% of the peole see on their movie and TV screens. I know it's what I see.

Now, regarding Off the Rack Wested. I would actually recommend going with this as a first Wested. I have owned several OTR Westeds, and they fit great. The custom order I received as my first Wested, was slightly off. This way, you can get a decent jacket, with great resale value, should you decide to sell it to upgrade to a custom. AND you'll know what needs to be changed in order to get it exactly the way you want.

Good Luck, and once again, Welcome Aboard.
'Blues

[lump]

If you're the kind of person who can get a good fit out of an off-the-rack jacket, then I think Wested is a good way to go. So, on that point I agree with IndyBlues.

However, unlike Mr. Blues, I've seen photos of the Authentic that look that dark. It must be possible, anyway, because the Authentic color looks darker in the movie! So, yes, Authentic Lamb is what you see on screen.
IN PERSON, Authentic Brown almost never looks that way. I think you would prefer the Dark Brown. It's richer, deeper, and... well... browner. After comparing, I kind of wish mine was dark brown.

[Deleted]

Well, I'm no Wested expert so I can't be of much help but I do want to say Welcome to the Lounge.

Cheers,
G-MANN

[indianablooze]

My experience..........

Dark brown lamb
plus
Hot water ditressing
equaled
Authentic lamb color

And Welcome to the lounge

[Ragingblues]

lump said:

If you're the kind of person who can get a good fit out of an off-the-rack jacket, then I think Wested is a good way to go. So, on that point I agree with IndyBlues.

However, unlike Mr. Blues, I've seen photos of the Authentic that look that dark. It must be possible, anyway, because the Authentic color looks darker in the movie! So, yes, Authentic Lamb is what you see on screen.
IN PERSON, Authentic Brown almost never looks that way. I think you would prefer the Dark Brown. It's richer, deeper, and... well... browner. After comparing, I kind of wish mine was dark brown.

The authentic brown color is called that by Peter of Wested, and not because it's the actual authentic color of the movie jackets. It is my understanding that when he found an old jacket he thought had been left over from the movie batch, he began offering a new color that was more that color instead of the standard dark color he had been offering.

Regardless of what color the actual movie jackets were in Raiders, there was the addition of shoe polish, mink oil, and various distressing methods which no doubt included water as well as surface abrasion. So, the jacket itself was darker than it had been when it was delivered to them. So, dark brown tends to yield the closest match of what is seen on screen in almost all of the scenes anyway.

I think Wested's dark brown lambskin is a great combination, and recommend it as well. (I have one myself )


Ken

[agent5]

The authentic brown color is called that by Peter of Wested, and not because it's the actual authentic color of the movie jackets.

Actually, it was. It's just the color of the leather before distressing which, as you mentioned makes all the difference in the final outcome. If you wanna put time and effort into making your jacket look as exact as possible to the screen, then authentic lamb is the way to go. If you just want an out of the box, good looking jacket then the dark brown will do just fine.

[Ragingblues]

agent5 said:

The authentic brown color is called that by Peter of Wested, and not because it's the actual authentic color of the movie jackets.

Actually, it was. It's just the color of the leather before distressing which, as you mentioned makes all the difference in the final outcome. If you wanna put time and effort into making your jacket look as exact as possible to the screen, then authentic lamb is the way to go. If you just want an out of the box, good looking jacket then the dark brown will do just fine.

I'm afraid I have to disagree. Actually it's not the same, due to unintentional factors. The term authentic brown was given to the new color batch by Peter, based on the long lost jacket he found. The big misleading factor is that people think that means it was without a doubt, the authentic color of the original jackets.

Aside from the fact that he had new hides dyed to match the newly found color, and that dye lots vary greatly among hides produced on weeks apart... the long lost jacket he is basing this information on would have changed in color itself after that many years had passed.

I think using the term authentic brown needs to be qualified for new people buying an Indy jacket. It seems like a no brainer when you read it... why not just buy the authentic color? But, the truth is... you'll receive a jacket that doesn't look like what you saw on screen in most lighting situations. That, and the fact that there is statistically no way that you are getting a truly authentic color, based on my reasoning above.

It's all really petty stuff, to be sure. But, it can be frustrating when you're new to this interest.


Ken

[GlockJutsu]

Thanks so much for the help, fellas. You all have really placed me back on the right track. I think the dark lamb Wested is the way to go, and that's what I'll be ordering then.

On a side note, I've got several leather jackets, two of which include an original A2 and a G3. I had to have the cuffs replaced a while back on both. US Wings does an outstanding job here, so if you guys ever need any leather work, I highly recommend them.

Thanks once again for the advice and welcomes. I look forward to hanging out and talking with you guys.

[agent5]

I'm afraid I have to disagree. Actually it's not the same, due to unintentional factors. The term authentic brown was given to the new color batch by Peter, based on the long lost jacket he found. The big misleading factor is that people think that means it was without a doubt, the authentic color of the original jackets.

But it is. Peter found one quarter panel of a Raiders jacket in his move from London to where they are now. It was packed up in a box all those years out of sunlight so based on what I've been told there should be little to no fluctuation in color due to age. It is the exact authentic color of the original Raiders jackets when they were shipped to the production BUT this was before they were distressed to what we see and know on screen.

It seems like a no brainer when you read it... why not just buy the authentic color? But, the truth is... you'll receive a jacket that doesn't look like what you saw on screen in most lighting situations. That, and the fact that there is statistically no way that you are getting a truly authentic color, based on my reasoning above.

This is very true. It won't be THE Raiders jacket out of the box, in fact far from it. The owner would have to distress it properly in order for it to look right as it did on screen, but the dark brown looks more correct out of the box, although not accurate to the screen. So, in the end you will be getting the truly authentic color, but you have to put some work into it to get it to look like what we see on screen.

[GCR]

Well, I certainly don't mean to muddy up the waters any further, but I think a big part of the issue at hand here, is how we each define terms like "Authentic" and "Screen-Accurate".

When folks say "screen-accurate", are we talking about a piece of gear being accurate to what was SEEN on screen or what was USED on screen? In my own mind, the term "authentic" seemed to imply something was accurate to what was used on screen, such as a specific color of leather, or a certain type of felt, or a particular brand like HJ, Wested or Alden. While "screen-accurate" described items that best duplicate the look of the gear items SEEN on screen, even if they were not from the original maker or were not the original, "authentic" color.

Using those definitions, I would have to say, based on what I've seen, the dark brown matches the color that the Raiders jacket appears to be through much of the film (though not every scene) better out of the box than the Authentic color. If you're looking for a project jacket, then in the long run, as Agent5 says (love the avatar, by the way), the authentic brown will probably yield better "screen-accurate" results with the appropriate distressing applied (wire brushes and mink oil and a night by the pool with Deb Nadoolman ;D ). But two brand new jackets, side by side? I'll take the DB.

-GCR

[IndyBlues]

gcr said:

I'll take the DB.

-GCR

DB= Dark Brown? I just took a dark brown, myself. ;D

Badum-bum-*crash*! Thanks ladies and gentlemen, I'll be here til tuesday,...try the veal....
'Blues

[pitfallharry]

;D ;D ;D ;D

[Kt. Templar]

Just to confuse you futher.



I've always found the dark brown to be a little too purply for my taste.

[Ragingblues]

I've always found the dark brown to be a little too purply for my taste.

Neither of my dark brown jackets from Peter look anything like the color of those in your photo KT, not have any others I've ever seen before. Did you order the special ultraviolet edition?






Agent5,

I agree completely about the theory of buying the authentic color, then putting alot of work into it to get it more like what we see on screen (like the dark brown color already is). However, I disagree that there is any way the quarter panel Peter found could still be the same color it was back in 1981. Not only did he not find it until many years later (and I doubt it had been so carefully stored up to that point), but leather darkens/changes color with age. Is it somewhat close to the original? I'm sure it is. However, using the term authentic is still a stretch and misleading to new jacket buyers.

We all know the difference and what needs to be done, but a simple explanation on his website would be very helpful. Just tell people... this color won't look like what you saw on screen unless you do A, B, and C to it. This one will look more like what you envisioned right from the start. The same could and probably should be said about the hats being sold by various vendors as well, though I doubt most could offer a decent list of what to do to make the hats look better.

Obviously, in the end.... it's only what the buyers sees that matters. I just think a little more info would be helpful.


Ken

[Kt. Templar]

It was a very overcast day and that might have be a particularly red one. The one further to the back seems less purple!

This is the Auth Brown in sunlight:



And a Wotw that I have always assumed was the same leather they used ofr dark brown:

[Ragingblues]

It looks like you might be right about that being the same DB color as the WOTW jacket KT. Though I prefer the dark brown, I think both colors are fine choices for Indy jackets.

Great looking jackets too, btw!


Ken

[indianablooze]

OK KT, you are the man on the spot How's the new goat compare to the old goat and the horse? I always wanted a Wested Goat,finally resigned myself to the fact I'd have to get a horse, and now Peter says he has goat again What's a guy to do?

[Kt. Templar]

indianablooze said:

OK KT, you are the man on the spot How's the new goat compare to the old goat and the horse? I always wanted a Wested Goat,finally resigned myself to the fact I'd have to get a horse, and now Peter says he has goat again What's a guy to do?

Are you in trouble! Very nice authentic brown colour and softer/thinner than the old goat but still very strong. Lighter than both the horse and the goat in weight.

I am very tempted I can tell you.



Modded for closer colour match (I think!) Get a sample to be sure!

[Ragingblues]

Way too chocolate colored for my tastes, but a nice looking leather.

Ken

[indyk]

glockjutsu said:

So, when I emailed Wested to ask about this, Gemma replied that the jacket pictured on the main page of the Raiders Jacket site is the "authentic lamb" color....


But...but...this color is doesn't appear the same to me as the "authentic lamb" color of the ROLA jackets. This color looks more like a dark brown lamb.

Anyone have any clue which color is which?

Hi glockjutsu (who happens to have the same Indy-line as signature as me... ..:-)))

Gemma is totally right on this one. I shot the photos for Peter, and the jacket You see on his website is the "authentic brown lamb".
Here is a link to the original photos made for Peter, and please notice, that the last photo is the EXACT same jacket, after distressing, and in daylight. The jacket will respond very different when seen in different lightnings. Some times it can appear all black (as in the idol-grab scene), and sometimes it appears light brown when seen up-front in sunlight.

So dont be confused by the photos and the "impression" we all have in our heads. It's all in the lightning...
kentbovin.com/Wested%20lamb.htm

[GlockJutsu]

Thanks, IndyK.

As for the sig line, I've been saying that quote for years and years, and for some reason I couldn't remember where I heard it, although I knew it was a movie. It wasn't until recently when waching ROTLA for the uber-millionth time that I heard the quote from Indy while he and Marion were in Katanga's cabin. I was kinda like, "oh yeah! That's where I heard that line!".

Thanks for the photos of the jacket. I really do like the authentic brown, but I think it is a bit too chocolatey for me. I'm going to go with a dark brown. I have an A2 lambskin that was originally dark brown and has distressed very nicely over the years.

Besides, I noticed the "pleather" jacket on the 12" Indy doll that I've had since I was like 10 years old is dark brown. That's gotta mean something, right? LOL

Seriously, though, thanks again for the photos. And thanks to everyone else for all the help.