Todd's jacket III

[Tyrloch]

As long as it looks screen accurate (SA), and it fits, I couldn't care less is calfskin or goatskin isn't what the original was made of! Todd, you do your thing! Your vision of the jacket looks great!

~Jace

[GCR]

todd said:

GCR, I'm reconsidering that option... here's why.

I've been asked about all kinds of options - leather, hardware, sizing, etc. Of course, I could make a jacket any way you want. But then it would be less than the ultimate screen accurate jacket anymore. I'm leaning towards limiting options in the interest of maintaining standards. Some have said they want a jacket with "new" looking leather. Well, that's not my vision for this jacket, so I'll have to pass on that one.

Yeah, and I don't go with "screen accuracy is in the eye of the beholder" either. Not on details you can see on screen. If you can show me where my pattern's wrong, please do and I'll change my pattern. If not, I'm sticking to my guns.

I understand that people want different things. Not everyone wants a screen accurate jacket, warts and all. I get that.

If you want a purple Indy jacket, there's another vendor who will make it for you. If you want a screen accurate one, call me. That's the niche I want to fill.

I know calfskin is not technically screen accurate, but it looks the most screen accurate of the choices I have available. When I get a better leather, I'll offer it, too.

What do you think? Comments?

Todd,

I agree with your desire to make the finest example of a screen-accurate jacket out there, and I don't blame you for wanting to limit what sorts of options will be available on your jackets. However, I guess I'm just not sold on the tri-glide slider thing for the side straps. Some screen-caps that were posted looked fairly convincing, but nothing (to me) looked concrete enough to say with any amount of certainty that "this is what the screen jacket had". Unfortunately, if a customer wishes to change the hardware after the jacket is received, switching from the tri-glide (or whatever they are called) to the traditional black rectangular loops is not as easy as switching from something like D-rings to the Loops, as it entails removal of the stitching in certain parts of the jacket. I understand you wish to cater to those who strictly want the most screen-accurate jacket out there, but for me, the ultimate screen-accurate jacket has those metal loops, not the tri-glide. I honestly think the straps on the screen-used jackets were just longer than those of most modern day Indy jackets, and the added length, folded over and back through the loops (The Agent5 method) gives the appearance of the square, tri-glide like piece of hardware. Granted, I could be totally wrong, and I can't prove that any of this is true, it's just my opinion, after all. But when I look at those screen-caps, to me I see the rectangular loops, and because of that, those are what I would want on my jacket. Sorry for the long, rambling reply!

-GCR

[Tyrloch]

GCR,

You can replace the tri-glides with rect. sliders or vice-versa fairly easily. All you have to do is cut through the center on the center bar, then you can work it onto or off of the leather tab. Since it's metal, it doesn't really need to be a solid piece straight across. We used to do this all the time with fastex buckles on backpacks. If the buckle got stepped on or otherwise got broken, you had to cut it off. And the only way to get a new plastic buckle on there without cutting the webbing strap was to cut a channel into the buckle and slide it on...it works just fine with a plastic buckle, so there should be not problems at all with a metal one...

~Jace

[GCR]

tyrloch said:

GCR,

You can replace the tri-glides with rect. sliders or vice-versa fairly easily. All you have to do is cut through the center on the center bar, then you can work it onto or off of the leather tab. Since it's metal, it doesn't really need to be a solid piece straight across. We used to do this all the time with fastex buckles on backpacks. If the buckle got stepped on or otherwise got broken, you had to cut it off. And the only way to get a new plastic buckle on there without cutting the webbing strap was to cut a channel into the buckle and slide it on...it works just fine with a plastic buckle, so there should be not problems at all with a metal one...

~Jace

You know, sometimes I amaze myself with my stupidity...

I was thinking of how difficult it is to attach the tri-glides to a jacket that is already made, (where you would need to remove stitching to attach them) without realizing that it would be far easier to REMOVE them, as you have explained...

DUH! ;D

Thanks for pointing that out, Tyrloch! Todd, please disregard my longwinded (and absent minded) rant on the rectangular loops! ;D

-GCR

[Tyrloch]

GCR,

No problem!! But it works both ways -- if you cut the middle of the center post on the tri-glide, you can put it ON a jacket that formally had d-rings or whatever. The tri-glide type of buckle made of metal doesn't need to be a full bar across the middle, it'll still be strong enough with the gap there...

~JAce

[Tyrloch]

I bought a set of 4 Rect. sliders and a pair of tri-glide type of hardware (they look more like a fat figure '8') from Strapworks. If I decide to try out the tri-glides on my Wested, I'll snap some pics to illustrate how you can get them on by cutting them....

~Jace

[rick5150]

Yeah, and I don't go with "screen accuracy is in the eye of the beholder" either. Not on details you can see on screen. If you can show me where my pattern's wrong, please do and I'll change my pattern. If not, I'm sticking to my guns.

This is a great idea, as it is the changing patterns that make the Indy jacket get bastardized into a Wilson's leather jacket. It needs certain things to look accurate and making it roomier to accomodate a sweater completely ruins the look. I drives me nuts to hear people ordering the ultimate screen-accurate jacket then they get it a size bigger to layer clothing. That completely defeats the purpose. Please stick to your guns....

[agent5]

I drives me nuts to hear people ordering the ultimate screen-accurate jacket then they get it a size bigger to layer clothing. That completely defeats the purpose.

I did that with my first jacket. The thing is...IF it were made with an 80's fit, I think it would be the perfect fitting jacket for me. One size up with an 80's fit. The one size up makes it sort of baggier than usual, but the 80's fit streamlines the jacket.

[Tyrloch]

A5,

That's what I ordered on my second jacket -- 42R (one size up) but with an 80's fit. I did it mainly because the jacket before this one, (the 40R with 80's fit) was barely a 40 -- it was almost wetsuit-tight across my exactly 40" chest, and the armholes were so small that I couldn't get it on with anything more than a t-shirt underneath! So the 42R 80's fit is loose around the chest/shoulders area, but still snugs up a bit at the waist, not right up to my waist, but enough that it doesn't bell-bottom. The only thing is that the "squirrellage factor" on this jacket is fairly high...

~Jace

[agent5]

Got any pics of the jacket on you?

[Tyrloch]

A5,

No, but I can take some. Only thing is, I have no clue as to how to post them here! I could email them to you...let me know.

~Jace

[Deleted]

Jace,

Set yourself up with a Photobucket or other picture hosting site.

That's how most of the folks here post Pictures. Most of them are free.

Cheers,
G-MANN

[Tyrloch]

Do you have to resize pics or anything like that? I know how to point that thingy that takes photos & press the button, I even know how to get 'em outta that little box & into the computer...but that's just about it.

~Jace

[Deleted]

I don't know if you have any Photo editing programs. You can resize pics from the Photobucket account if need be.

Cheers,
G-MANN

[Tyrloch]

John,

Ok, I'll give it a shot -- I'll be back...

~Jace

[todd]

Okay, the tri-glide is negotiable. I'm still not sure on the buckle config. The hi-def screen shot Agent5 showed me looks like the rectangular ring set up - except that from the front and other angles it is very flat and very smooth - definitely not the unsightly lump that the double-back method usually creates. Perhaps the straps were just super thin and laid nice and flat. That would also explain the wrinkliness of them in other pics. I'll experiment to see if I can duplicate the look with thin straps and thin rings.

[GCR]

todd said:

Okay, the tri-glide is negotiable. I'm still not sure on the buckle config. The hi-def screen shot Agent5 showed me looks like the rectangular ring set up - except that from the front and other angles it is very flat and very smooth - definitely not the unsightly lump that the double-back method usually creates. Perhaps the straps were just super thin and laid nice and flat. That would also explain the wrinkliness of them in other pics. I'll experiment to see if I can duplicate the look with thin straps and thin rings.

I've managed to recreate a rather flat look with my own jacket (A Wested lamb) by using the Agent5 method and this is what made me think the tri-glide might not actually be the answer, I'll do it again and post a few pics of how it looks.

-GCR

[agent5]

Just to be fair, I wasn't the first person to come up with this strap configuration. I just showed the screen caps, but thanks for the credit. I'll take it. ;D

I did find a shot where Ford's double is wearing the jacket and has the double-back strap configuration. I'll post it when I return from me Mum's.

[pitfallharry]

Just as long as you guys figure it out. I've got the straps on my Wested double looped back through to where the tip of the strap is pointing out toward the front of the jacket. It was the only way I could keep them from slipping. I don't know if that's S.A or not but it's my only choice. There's nothing more annoying than the straps coming loose on the jacket.

Another thing I noticed yesterday when I was out using my whip while wearing my Wested is even after having it for almost two years now the thing is still rather stiff. I really can't get the jacket to "move" with me when I'm doing those shots. I'm guessing with the way Todd's jacket drapes I'll be able to get more "movement" out of in when I do any action shots.

Now it's just getting the money to buy one. I've got my AB now I need one of these jackets to go with it!

[Tyrloch]

A5,

I figured out how to post pics. As long as I don't receive a tongue-lashing ( ) for the pics being too big, I should be able to take & post some of me in the jacket tomorrow night...

~Jace

[todd]

Here's a HD close up of the rear strap. The right side has my interpretation just to define the shapes and edges. The orange is outlining where the stitching is (except along the edges of the strap, which is faintly visible under the orange box where the rear strap disappears under the front strap.) The orange arrows define the stretch wrinkles and where they originate - the corners of the orange box.



Now, please look at the buckle - it's blurry, but you can see that it passes under the front strap IN THE DIRECTION OF THE FRONT STRAP, not in the direction of the rear strap as double loops would do in the normal double back config. Does anyone see that? Could this be a simple fluke - is it just twisted up somehow? Can anyone make their own jackets do this? Or are we still looking for the right buckle?

Thoughts?

[Tyrloch]

Todd,

I'm by no means positive, but I think it may be the tri-glide buckle, but mounted on the OTHER side, i.e., the front of the jacket, and then doubled back to face backwards. Try this on a jacket you have there with a tri-glide mounted on it. After you have the strap through the buckle, double it back so it faces forward, and see if it resembles what you see in the photo...

~Jace

[patterson]

Just to chime in... I talked to Todd pretty far down the road towards his completing this project. My measurements were more after the fact validation, if even that… We missed hooking up earlier on because I was buried, but when we did connect he had essentially nailed what we could not get Peter to acknowledge back in 2000. I have to say - and Todd please confirm - that there were no wild swings in any details based on comparing those notes to the work he had done. This speaks to his eye for detail IMHO, and I sure would have welcomed that with G&B – even though it worked with them, it might have been smoother if they would not have had their own “experience” hindering open thinking, if this makes sense? Anyway, there were measurements I provided to Todd for some of the most obscure dimensions and in many cases we were essentially dead-on in agreement...

It has been refreshing to deal with somebody who catches the detail and makes it work. Those pics above are just outstanding IMO - and I've been bugging SOMEBODY to make one of these from calf for about 8 years!!! Anyway, I think this is an outstanding piece of work and I am excited to BE excited about getting an Indy jacket again. I'm number 10 on the list...

[todd]

Tyrloch, I agree 100% - it does look like a trigide, but used differently. The problem I have is that the triglide would have to be connected to the front strap. Okay, so maybe this one jacket had it backwards. But in the scene entering the temple at the beginning - the right-hand strap is undone quite far, yet the buckle still stays put in relation to the back of the jacket - meaning that it is connected to the rear strap. I'll have to look at those pics again to see if there is any other explanation for it...

Thanks, Patterson. Yes, you've been a great help in settling my mind about the basic dimensions and cut. Regardless of the shifting details of these 10 or 11 jackets, I have to think that the basic "block" would have been the starting point for all of them. And you are right again - all I had to do was adjust 1/4" here or 1/8" there. Your measurements confirmed that I was very, very close to the original size/specs.

[Tyrloch]

Todd,

I see what you mean -- the front strap does look rather long to have the tri-glide attached to it. Maybe it is attached to the back strap, but the strap isn't cinched completely tight through it, giving it that pronounced loop sticking out? Or maybe it's a tri-glide with the prongs on it like the ones we saw on the ToD jacket...just throwing things out there...

~Jace