Todd's jacket III

[todd]

Here are some photos of prototype #5. This is the calf with the applied finish I was telling you about. Sorry the color varies from picture to picture, but I think you get the idea. The calf is very drapey.

The pattern is 99% set in stone now. I'm only changing two things after this, so I think I'm getting close. I'll hopefully announce soon a price and availability.

Enjoy the pics!

[Kaplan]

you just tell me when it's time to buy.

[pitfallharry]

Wow, this jacket just keeps getting better and better. I really like the way that calfskin drapes.

Looks great Todd. Can't wait to get my hands on one.

[Ragingblues]

Beautiful leather with that worn in look already built right in!

Great work,

Ken

[IndyBlues]

That jacket looks incredible!! What a great look to it, right out of the gate.
Great work, Todd.
'Blues

[todd]

Thanks, all! I will begin taking orders for these club members only. I will not sell these on the website yet. Unfortunately, it will be on a first come, first served basis. Those of you who have already requested jackets will be first in line. Right now, I can do about one per week - so if you are number ten in line... you can figure it out. I'm looking for more help, and I hope I can speed things up in the near future. The price (for now) will be $349.

Leather choices are: Calfskin, lambskin, and goat skin. The calf is the only one with that authentic film look and drape. I will be adding an authentic-looking lambskin and a plonge (cow) later.

Since you can't order these through the website, you'll have to contact me via PM or e-mail: [e-mail] .

I wanted to give those of you who have been unfairly teased these past few months first crack at these. Thanks for being patient, everyone!

Todd

[Marc]

Bravo Todd!!!

The jacket seems to have it everything. From the right pocket flaps to s.a. wrinkles in the shoulder area.

I hope to be able to buy one later this year.

Regards,

Marc

[winstonwolf359]

Man, that's a great looking jacket, Todd!

[indianatone]

Todd, did you adjust the sleeves to be more tapered at the wrist or is that just how they look on the person wearing this one?

They seemed to have the right amount of opening on G-Mann's, though this could be due to G-Mann having screen accurate wrists.

Was just wondering if that is one of the modifications you've added since the first jacket?

Thank you.

[GCR]

;D ;D ;D ;D

Love the new avatar, Tone!!!

-GCR

[Tycoonman]

Wow, that is really amazing looking. I'm not really into the whole screen accuracy, but that leather you are using is beautiful... I've never seen it before, but it almost looks like suede.

And sorry I haven't been on lately guys, Been working a lot... getting accepted to college is a ***** when it comes to bills...

Tycoonman

[Tyrloch]

Todd,

How much is the goatskin going to differ from the lamb or calf? I suppose it's going to be thicker, but how much? Will the color be basically the same?

~Jace

[todd]

Thanks for the comments, all! It is Monday and a lot has happened over the weekend. It will take some time to sort things out and reply to everyone, so please be patient. I will try to answer all the questions here for everyone's benefit.

Todd, did you adjust the sleeves to be more tapered at the wrist or is that just how they look on the person wearing this one?

Both. The sleeves were narrowed slightly based on photos and measurements confirmed by the FS sample and the TL stunt jacket specs provided by Patterson. I am pleased with the sleeve as it looks in person.

FYI, this is one area where I feel the FS missed the mark - I think the RHJ (Raider's Hero Jacket) had a straighter sleeve than the FS. This is a perfect example of how specs are incomplete when it comes to replication of a garment. The measurements can't convey the SHAPE of the sleeve, only the size. The RHJ had a slight curve (the reason for the seam placement where it is) but not too curved, and fairly tight. More of a "boomerang" shape and less of an "arc" shape.

How much is the goatskin going to differ from the lamb or calf? I suppose it's going to be thicker, but how much? Will the color be basically the same?

You'll have to wait until I have the goatskin for specifics. From my recollection, the goat available to me is a little thicker and less drapey than the calf. Color is similar, but more monotone - not the scuffed-up look of the calf.

Let me here insert a little explanation of sizing. Sizes are S, M, L, XL, and XXL (I might add an XS too).
S = 38
M = 40
L = 42
XL = 44
XXL = 46
My M is the TL stunt original specs - no adjustments for standardization purposes. As such, the fit is a little on the large of medium.

Okay, time for a little gentle rant here. Much has been made of the mythical "80's fit". The TL jacket measurements are in perfect alignment with standard modern jacket sizing. It was is no slimmer than most modern jackets.

I think the concern with wide jackets stems from the leather being used, not the cut. I have two jackets here with identical patterns - one a US Wings out of a strange, stiff lambskin and another vendor's sample from soft lambskin. The stiff jacket fits like a barrel, and the soft one fits like a comfortable shirt. The point? The problem with wide-looking jackets is not the cut - it's the drape.

So, to you who have sent me e-mails and PM's with worries about the width - you will have no reason for concern. The jacket will not look bulky. It will drape around you like a shirt, not like a biker jacket. Order your REGULAR size.

I will make a size chart ASAP with sleeve length, etc. For now, just send in your measurements and let me worry about the fit. If it's not great, you can send it back for another size. I hope this answers some concerns.

Todd

[IndyBlues]

I all of a sudden feel very "large"
Todd, if a size 46 is an XXL, you may not have a jacket that will fit me. My size 46 G&B fits close to the way my size 48 Wested fits.
I will wait to see your measurment chart to compare to what I have. I assume it is slightly different than than the breakdown you posted at COW.
Mike

[todd]

Mike,

Yes, that is true. Since I am scaling these patterns differently than usual, I will take the measurements from the finished patterns, rather than making the patterns fit an arbitrary measurement. I can make up an XXXL pattern for you, but I have the feeling the regular XXL will fit you fine. I'll get back to you when I can get back to pattern making - the next few days I'm busy on a mascot suit. Thanks!

Todd

[IndyBlues]

Thanks Todd Any measurements you need, just let me know.
Basically, I'm a 46-48 chest, with a sleeve measurement of 25"
Back length at 26"-26 1/2" would be perfect, but you let me know what you can do.
Mike

[Tyrloch]

To anyone who knows -- I've read that the calfskin is very drapey, but how's its toughness? I can understand if it's not as bulletproof as goatskin, but how does it compare to lambskin? Is it comparable or tougher than the lamb? Just trying to decide if it's worth it to go for the goat, or if I should just stick with calfskin...thanks.

~Jace

[IndyBlues]

I found this while researching it myself:

"Calfskin is not nearly as weak as its detractors maintain. Although the fiber network is indeed lacking the depth of cowhide, the fiber bundles are reasonably stout and contain numerous finer fibers which are long, highly ramified, and of high tensile strength. This is because, in any young animal, the connective tissue, i.e., skin, develops more rapidly than some other parts of the body, such as the muscles. The dermal network of calfskin is therefore reasonably well developed and exhibits remarkable strength and toughness."

Maybe Todd can shed some more light on this issue
'Blues

[Tyrloch]

Yeah, Hopefully. I can't see it being as tough as the goatskin, but possibly tougher than lamb? I want to know for sure if it's worth the extra $35 to get the goat, or is the calfskin tough enough...not a huge price difference, but just want to have all the info before deciding...

~Jace

[todd]

I haven't done comparative wear testing on any of these hides. You can speak in general terms about the properties of types of leather, but utlimately the tanning process can alter the properties of the hide so that the ultimate wear resisitance is a sum of the hide + tanning.

I would base my purchase decision on appearance preference. They are all fine hides, but all lightweight. If you really need a tough jacket, then something like a biker jacket would be in order. These aren't tough jackets. Despite the exaggerations I've read about how tough goat or lamb is, or how "bulletproof" your favorite jacket is, the bottom line is that they are not kevlar. They are very thin, very soft leathers that cut and puncture easily, like most fabrics. The differences between them are relatively slight. Most leathers tolerate abrasions fairly well, but won't stand up to a pocket knife or even a sharpened pencil. Don't expect miracles.

So, my advice, buy based on looks. The difference in strength is minor between hides of the same softness and same thickness.

[Ragingblues]

todd said:

I haven't done comparative wear testing on any of these hides. You can speak in general terms about the properties of types of leather, but utlimately the tanning process can alter the properties of the hide so that the ultimate wear resisitance is a sum of the hide + tanning.

I would base my purchase decision on appearance preference. They are all fine hides, but all lightweight. If you really need a tough jacket, then something like a biker jacket would be in order. These aren't tough jackets. Despite the exaggerations I've read about how tough goat or lamb is, or how "bulletproof" your favorite jacket is, the bottom line is that they are not kevlar. They are very thin, very soft leathers that cut and puncture easily, like most fabrics. The differences between them are relatively slight. Most leathers tolerate abrasions fairly well, but won't stand up to a pocket knife or even a sharpened pencil. Don't expect miracles.

So, my advice, buy based on looks. The difference in strength is minor between hides of the same softness and same thickness.

That makes alot of sense and sounds like good advice in general for this hobby.

Ken

[TheManinTheHAT]

I'm new in this world of Indy stuff and notice one of the photos that Todd has presented his prototypes, a configuration that looks different from my jacket from Wested where the fastener straps is facing the other way, by this I mean the leather strap should be pulled towards the pockets and not pull back to the 'back panel'.

It's the second photo below......

[agent5]

That strap placement has always been a sunject of debate. This is Todd's way and Wested does it another. It's up to you which you think is accurate.

[GCR]

If I remember correctly, I believe Todd said he would be offering a choice between the style pictured on his prototype, which feature the strap facing backwards and the use of a "tri-glide" type piece of hardware, OR the more traditional set of 2 black rectangular loops that other jackets (like the FS) come with.

-GCR

[todd]

GCR, I'm reconsidering that option... here's why.

I've been asked about all kinds of options - leather, hardware, sizing, etc. Of course, I could make a jacket any way you want. But then it would be less than the ultimate screen accurate jacket anymore. I'm leaning towards limiting options in the interest of maintaining standards. Some have said they want a jacket with "new" looking leather. Well, that's not my vision for this jacket, so I'll have to pass on that one.

Yeah, and I don't go with "screen accuracy is in the eye of the beholder" either. Not on details you can see on screen. If you can show me where my pattern's wrong, please do and I'll change my pattern. If not, I'm sticking to my guns.

I understand that people want different things. Not everyone wants a screen accurate jacket, warts and all. I get that.

If you want a purple Indy jacket, there's another vendor who will make it for you. If you want a screen accurate one, call me. That's the niche I want to fill.

I know calfskin is not technically screen accurate, but it looks the most screen accurate of the choices I have available. When I get a better leather, I'll offer it, too.

What do you think? Comments?